Re: Fwd: Regarding EGLStreams support in KWin

On 2019-02-21 10:19 AM, David Edmundson wrote:
> I do not approve of this being linked on public inboxes for Reddit, it
> doesn't feel like the goal was actually about discussing technical
> issues with the relevant people.

I didn't post it here so it could be linked on Reddit, I Cc'd this list
because there are more wlroots people there than on the kwin list. The
kwin list has public archives, too - but I don't really appreciate that
this was posted on Reddit, either.

> It is an open standard that happens to only have one vendor.
> 
> We currently have a libhybris backend, which shims propreitory blobs
> directly. That was done by the then kwin maintainer to no noise at
> all. Having a different stance here would really be an unfair double
> standard.
> 
> A lot of the arguments apply there and overall and despite it being a
> whole separate backend that's harder to even build it has proven to be
> much more of an asset than a burden.

I didn't know there was a libhybris backend, but I'm sad to hear that
there is. Much of my concern applies here, too.

> If we are going to discuss technical merits, we should include them
> for EGLStreams too, such as the deferred texture decompression that
> don't exist in GBM.

Aye, I'm not saying that GBM as a standard is better or worse than
EGLStreams. This is why I said that one "out" for Nvidia could be to
implement EGLStreams in another driver, like nouveau. Alternatively,
showing a promising plan for unifying Linux graphics under some other
model would be acceptable. I'm not just saying "rah rah Nvidia doom and
gloom" - there are tangible steps they could take to make these problems
better.

> I'll continue to work on these things, my priority is my userbase, and
> overall I think this patch is a good thing.
>
> I want to welcome the open source contribution that Nvidia is making.
> Embracing open source outreach is the way to generate more.

I think you're sacrificing large long-term wins to make small short-term
wins. Maybe your userbase will double in size when you merge this patch.
But what if the entire Linux desktop grows by 100x thanks to the
proliferation of high-quality open source drivers because you chose to
say "no" to a bully who wouldn't play ball with everyone else?

I don't see what NVIDIA is doing as open-source outreach. I think they
see contributing to KWin et al as a necessary evil they need in order to
support their proprietary driver's goals.