Re: Hello and polling users

Hi

I have already subscribed to the Promo mailing list :)

I'll answer using reference style, because it seems a bit too long to be put
inside the text. I must warn you it is very(!) long indeed ....

1) Actually, posting the idea on the mailing list was the first step. I've
thought about it after looking at these resources of how to get involved. I
find it difficult to contribute (more than submitting ideas) without
actually using KDE. Additionally, writing articles might be too big a
commitment right now (more on that later). With all that said - I will
gladly write questions and procedures for surveys, starting with this
discussion. Firstly though, the goals of the surveys, and other attributes,
should be specified (more on that later as well). I'm somewhat interested in
helping the digest, as long as I have time for it.
@ Thomas - I'm afraid these 2 weeks aren't meant to be a vacation :( My
personal life is quite demanding at the moment and would probably remain so
for the next several years. :) I've been trying to get involved and study
programming (Which is a crucial task for me for these next 2 weeks). I think
this discussion is a good way to be involved with a level of obligation I'll
be able to maintain even when extremely stressed with time.

2) This is actually how I came to think of the surveys idea, and also to
bring up the KDE Brainstorm idea long ago. I have a list of set-backs (first
and foremost the amount of time I can invest in converting) which I will
specify at the end, since they are not part of the discussion about the
surveys idea. I'd appreciate any help, especially from hard core KDE folks
:)

3) Now the heavy  and longest part:)

First I want to relate to another idea I proposed some time ago in and will
incorporate later:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html?showComment=1273011618319#c6254894894042856561

The way I see it, we should refer to 3 different user groups - core users
(including developers and contributors), floating users (those who can't
decide yet) and non-users. The last group can be divided into 2 subgroups -
those who had never experienced KDE and deserters :)
On a side note I suppose there aren't many floating users since choosing a
DE is more a question of taste, and between KDE and any GTK based DE the
difference is large enough. So the term "floating users" refers more to
"distribution-hoppers", which affects desktop experience as well (I'll try
Ubuntu with GNOME to see if it solves my problems, for example).
I suppose that people contributing something other than ideas actually use
KDE.

KDE does not exist without the other components of an operating system. So
prefering KDE over other DE is not always independent of these other
components - the best example of course is Ubuntu. The ease of using Ubuntu
does not necessarily imply that GNOME in openSUSE works just as well.
In fact, this refers to all components of KDE, in some sense or other, but I
do not wish to elaborate more on that subject.

This leads to another question regarding deserters to Mac or Windows. Moving
to a different OS does not reflect necessarily on KDE, but on Linux, on
which KDE still is greatly dependent (I think). One of my problems (laptop
power consumption) is supposedly more kernel- and distribution-related, less
than KDE-related. But it affects the usage of KDE.

I wish to note something about freedom before moving on to the more relevant
discussion of the surveys and I think we can create a system that could help
solve some of these issues.
Being free to use as Linux and KDE and F/OSS is in general can be
interpreted in 2 slightly different ways. Firefox, VLC, SumatraPDF and
similar are free to use in that anyone **can** use them. Their use is
something like a point-and-shoot camera - just install and use. No
significant prior knowledge is required. Linux ,KDE and distributions are
not like that (esp. Linux) - they're free in the legal sense of anyone **may
** use. But not anyone **can** use these. Of course, Ubuntu was created with
this goal - changing the "may" to "can". I believe our goal should be that
as well, and using my own experience I wish to move on to describe a
possible solution of which surveys are part.
My approach to "Free" is based on Humanism. I remember reading a post in
Ubuntu by a father in Argentina, or someplace else (- I do not recall), who
installed Ubuntu (freely available) on a $200 computer (maybe it was $100)
since that's all he could afford and this is how he could give his daughter
a working computer. I think he didn't even have an internet connection, but
as I said, I don't remember. I was very moved. This is what I want to feel
when talking about F/OSS in general - that it enables people to have a good
life by giving them an equal opportunity to gain knowledge and education, to
have the same tools for entertainment and work. I believe KDE, as one of the
prominent F/OSS projects, has a significant role in such a vision and
approach. Being an innovator, KDE can help lead the way to make this equal
opportunity available to all by changing the "may" to "can", thus, perhaps,
increasing cooperation with Canonical and gaining more resources. KDE, being
more than just a DE, also have the tool necessary for this, and can develop
more if needed - all this while helping achieve a better KDE.

Identifying and understanding the reasons to why people are not satisfied
with KDE are essential to treat them, of course. I have mentioned 3 groups,
and I believe there should be some distinction between the reasons prevalent
in each, since their behaviour is different. Core users might be
dissatisfied with one part or other, but they still use KDE. This might be
because of issues which are not interruptive enough, or their skill allows
them to overcome the problems.
Floating users would eventually either find a suitable solution and use KDE
or find a suitable solution without using KDE and use this one instead. In
this case our goal is to prevent the second case and ease the way for the
first case. Non-users who haven't tried KDE might be allured to try it
(Windows KDE comes to mind), and those who have deserted might come back if
their problems are solved.

Surveys (as Google has conducted regularly) are probably the best way to do
the above. I've indeed started by asking myself why I haven't moved to use
Linux and KDE and identifying the causes. I'll help with the questionnaires
when the time arrives. I think I've stated some of the goals for them. I'll
refer again to the 3 groups of users.
I think identity.kde.org can be a most valuable tool for information about
the core-users. Not only to identify their causes of dissatisfaction, but
also gain insight into what distributions-computers combinations they run,
which problems they overcame and how they did it and similarly. Registration
allows tracking (with the approval of the member, of course), which enables
identifying if someone has stopped using KDE, for example. That's why I
think identity.kde.org surveys have a big potential to provide significant
information, albeit the registration required. Registration has another
benefit of dividing core-users into groups - since developers and users have
some different requirements, thus would probably be dissatisfied with
different issues. This might help with assigning tasks: for example, if
Nokia is more interested in expanding the developer-base, it might be more
appropriate to assign its funded developers tasks regarding developers.
Integration of the desktop with the website is another idea which I find
beneficial.
I'll present this with a use case (I'll try to summarize ideas and tasks in
the end): I have an old laptop, and I want to move to Linux (Sounds like a
real-life scenario :) ). I'm concerned about several issues, especially the
battery life and compatibility with this model. I do some research and
stumble upon KDE's website. There I can search for a suitable distribution
for my laptop, based on information of core-users on identity.kde.org (with
permission), and I find openSUSE is best. I install openSUSE with KDE and
boot. On startup, I get a notification about support survey (Something like
"Would you like to fill in a survey to help us support you better and make
your experience more enjoyable?"). I'm a noob without experience, and this
is tempting, so I press Yes. A dialog appears and asks me two questions -
whether I would like to install a plasmoid on the desktop or open a browser,
and whether I would like to register as a KDE user. Let's say I answer Yes
for both questions, since the alternative is similar and simpler. A plasmoid
similar to Kubuntu Feedback automatically installs and allows me to register
to identity.kde.org (or a similar website if we should find a different
solution) or just log-in. Then I'm asked to answer questions regarding my
system and installation and skills to create a user profile of me and
identify the distribution-computer combination I use (DistCom pair from now
on). I'm a noob, but I'm not afraid to go technical and have very little
time - I want it up and running asap. Based on the information I input, and
information stored in identity.kde.org, the plasmoid presents the problems I
might face with this system and DistCom pair, along with solutions to these
problems. In addition, the plasmoid presents a list of possible help
resources (blogs, websites, manuals) which would help me set up things and a
list of people willing to help me set things up, with experience with this
system and/or DistCom pair (Distcompair :) ). It might also explain to me
how to use IRC (interactively?) or otherwise how to contact these people
using KMail, Kopete or similar. It might also be possible to use Telepathy
in the plasmoid to facilitate the conncetion. (This relates to this idea in
Brainstorm: http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#idea84164_page1)
Surveys without registration are more meant to floating-users and non-users.
It does not allow tracking, which means their results is a snapshot of time,
and it's harder to measure progress. But this is statistics. I think there
is no substantial difference between the surveys themselves. Nevertheless,
having non-registration surveys allows to reach non-users more easily.
Having them conducted or referred to from other websites such as the
distributions' websites (Kubuntu, openSUSE, etc.) or significant F/OSS
websites (Phoronix, blogs, SourceForge etc.) will increase the possibility
of reaching this audience.
 I agree with the preference to host our own survey server, and am willing
to do so if someone would help me set up a server and all the other
necessary stuff (I have a spare computer I can use for that purpose, maybe 2
if all goes well :) ).

I see different goals for surveys, and thus different kinds of questions. I
mentioned the first-time survey. I imagine a time/usage-based survey
measuring satisfaction after 2 weeks of use or 10 log-ins or so. I think a
regular 2-or-3-months survey for core-users should be conducted as well, to
measure progress and influence development during cycles (might affect
importance of bugs). This survey might even include a "5 most annoying bugs"
question :) (This is redundant to the bug-system, but is a more active
approach to rating bugs), among questions about the hardware used and issues
with it. For the general audience (without registration), the survey should
start with identifying to which of the 3 groups the person taking the survey
belongs, then identify the subgroup. For deserters, the questions should be
meant to identify causes for desertion and what would bring them back to
KDE. For these who haven't used KDE, questions should identify strengths of
DE they currently use, whether they would switch, would the strengths of KDE
appeal to them.

Regarding results, I believe these of the mentioned surveys would help
discern problems at upstream and downstream more easily, and address them
better. I believe problems should be made clearer this way, and bugs could
be submitted and explored more easily. Thus specific driver problems could
be submitted to ATI or NVidia or Intel, and maybe this would help to better
communicate with them.

I believe I should quit here about surveys, if you're not already
overwhelmed :) (Systems engineer, anyone? :D)

I've seen some discussion regarding it, and I wish to say something about
what are the strengths of KDE for me and promotion, since that's part of the
purpose of surveys. I've seen a lot of promotion for applications. The
reason I want to use Linux and KDE is that I'm under the impression that if
I'll make them work properly and to my satisfaction ( - a big if), I'll be
able to utilize my computers more and in a much better way and would benefit
more as well. The technologies manifested in Linux and KDE attract me, even
if they are far from being usable. Nepomuk, PulseAudio, network
transparency, Akonadi, Telepathy - I see great potential (- unfulfilled,
mind -) in them, and this keeps me a floating user. I use that potential in
my computer, and these things would help me. In addition, the ability to use
more fully the potential of older machines is a great benefit for me, as
well as part of the essence of being free. Windows 7 does not allow me 3D
acceleration on my laptop, while Linux does (old intel 915). Application
wise, I like Okular a lot, and wish I could easily use it on Windows.

Pardon my being presumptuous - I think that the Linux based systems and most
F/OSS sphere suffer from 2 main problems, and KDE specifically. The first is
that what it promises is not fulfilled, and second is that development is
not entirely directional. Nepomuk and Akonadi can't be promoted yet since
they don't hold up to their promise or potential. I guess they require more
resources than available (I greatly appreciate the work done on them, and
anxiously looking forward to use them). I believe the survey system would
help this as well, since it might indicate what direction for development is
more important to certain groups. Thus, for example, the project might
decide than 4.7 should have significant performance improvements to attract
users, or to the contrary, implement many new features for media centers.
Results can also be used to indicate what promises are most highly
anticipated. Imagine having a sort of advertisement on KDE's and Nepomuk
(and amaroK) websites stating that Nepomuk performance is considered one of
the most annoying issues, and calling for help for this specifically. It's a
tailored "Getting Involved" ad. Wildly imagining, we might even approach
people showing a tendency to contribute asking them to help on issues
they're most concerned about and giving them an easy way to do it. (It's all
about sharing)

Last comment about Brainstorm - I think brainstorm would benefit from some
tool that would help identify similar ideas, or ideas belonging to similar
areas, or applications, or KDE components. It's not easy - I wonder if a
tool similar to this for identifying similar bugs is possible. This relates
to surveys in that ideas could be linked to surveys' results, maybe even
linking the results to the people who submitted the ideas related to them
(for feedback or other involvement) and developers related. Use case is
contacting a user who has submitted an idea to implement something more
efficiently to test the implementation, since it came up as important in
survey results and was implemented as a consequence.

Since sharing is very important in F/OSS, I believe the system I described
could benefit other projects as well, including GNOME. If so, it might be
better to get help building such a system, by building it jointly.
Maybe some of the ideas described above would help KDE receive funding as
well.

Summarizing the tasks and components:

1) Surveys written for specific audiences, goals and times
2) Survey servers
3) Database (on identity.kde.org?) of users and their
distributions-hardware, issues and solutions, etc. (Similar a bit to
ThinkWiki)
4) Survey (and support) Plasmoid
5) Survey and support data-engines(?)
6) Survey results analyzer
*) Some mechanism to integrate data and search the database mentioned above,
on servers or on desktops or both.

If you find the written above interesting, I believe that Aaron Seigo and
Tom Albers should become correspondents as well.

I hope this is helpful

Ron

About my systems and why I fail to use Linux. This is actually more related
to Linux then to KDE. I don't have much time to invest in getting things to
work, so I stick to Windows.
I have 3 computers at my disposal, neither of which is extremely strong nor
new. I use 2 regularly with Windows 7, and 1 is intended as a server. I'll
list their hardware and usage:

1) IBM X41 tablet - 1.5GHz Pentium M, 1.5GB RAM, i915, 30GB HDD + 16GB SD.
Used for note-taking, mails, reading and writing. Sometimes for Matlab
calculations. Problems - power consumption and tablet support. Tablet
requires a lot a hassle. Power consumption is crucial - Win7 has around 3.5
hours of work off the battery. Linux consumes much more leaving about 2.5
hours of juice (I think. I need to try in fact ...)

2) AMD 3.2GHz (Dual-core) Athlon X2 6400+, 2GB RAM, integrated ATI HD3200,
plenty of HDD room. Used for calculations and simulations, HD movies and
music, with 2 screens. I'm mostly worried about Full HD movies playback and
sound, and the dual-screen configuration.

3) 2.8GHz Intel 4, 768MB RAM, NVidia GeForce 440MX, 80GB HDD. Currently
unused, I meant to use it as a server (possibly for surveys as well) and
media center for regular TV. Been trying to make LIRC work with and old
Creative iNFRA CDROM without success. Have not idea how to set up a server.

By the way, I thought to pick up programming by starting writing a plasmoid.
I have a nice idea for it. Sounds like a good plan?

Cheers.



On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:09, Stuart Jarvis <[email protected]>wrote:

> Hi
>
> I agree with Thomas, but I've added a few extra comments in your original
> email below...
>
> On Friday 24 September 2010 09:01:50 Thomas Thym wrote:
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > thanks for sharing your ideas with us. Since promotion is about the
> > bridge between users and the community it is not the worst place to
> > send your message here :-)
> >
> > I like your idea. Surveys could keep us in touch with our users even
> > better and it would make it easier to get a picture of the whole group
> > than counting single statements in the Forum or on BKO or IRC or
> > something. I am not sure if our forum offers the possibility to do
> > simple surveys as well. We had some usability surveys done a couple of
> > months ago.
> >
> > The main lack from my perspective is time. Limited time of the
> > contributors. There are always so many projects and tasks that should
> > be done.
> >
> > Ron, you wrote that you have two weeks until the start of your
> > studies. Take that chance an experience KDE (the community) and KDE
> > Software. Get involved into your fascinating community. You can find
> > some information how to start [1] and [2]. Or just reply to that
> > group. *We would be glad to guide you.*       ***(1)***
> >
> > If you want to work on a possibility to make it easy for us to do
> > polls: Perfect! Just find a tasks that is relevant to you and start.
>
> Yep - if you have a good idea and want it to happen then the thing to do is
> to
> make it happen. Say you put together some survey questions, we can provide
> feedback and add some of our own. Then we can work out how to host it and
> give
> it a publicity push (dot story, Planet KDE, both of which other sites such
> as
> LWN, Tuxmachines etc often pick up)  *** (1)* **
>
>
>
> We hope to hear from you.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Thomas
> >
> > [1] KDE in general: http://www.kde.org/community/getinvolved/
> > [2] KDE Promotion: http://www.kde.org/community/getinvolved/promotion/
>
> In relation to these, you write clearly and seem good at getting ideas
> across,
> so one thing you might think about in the future is writing articles - if
> you
> fancy it. ** *(1) ***
>
> > 2010/9/24 Ron Katzir <[email protected]>:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > My name is Ron Katzir, and I'm a student starting MA in Math in about 2
> > > weeks' time. I've been following KDE since 4, for the last 2.5 years or
> > > so. I've tried to port myself to Linux, trying different distributions
> > > over time, but found myself always sticking to MS Windows.
>
> Why? To turn the survey around on you for a moment ;-) (I'm always
> fascinated
> to find the problem for someone who wants to use free software but is being
> stopped by something) ** *(2) ***
>
> > > Still I have
> > > a special place in my heart for F/OSS and KDE especially.
>
> You're in the right place then :-)
>
> > > I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but it seems the
> > > fittest. If not, I apologize for spamming and would gladly deliver it
> > > where it belongs.
> > >
> > > One of the strong points I find in Google's on-line free services is
> the
> > > connection with users. Satisfaction polls (surveys) are quite regularly
> > > conducted and feature requests are easily submitted. While KDE has
> > > Brainstorm to account for easy feature request, I believe surveys are
> as
> > > important.
> > >
> > > To shorten things, since this can be discussed a lot and I have quite a
> > > solid philosophy for my opinions on this matter :) I think that KDE
> > > should start conducting surveys to measure the satisfaction and
> > > discontent of its users, and identify the key elements of want.
> > >
> > > Since identity.kde.org is open for registration for everyone, I think
> > > this would be the ideal place to conduct such surveys regularly.
>
> Maybe, though do we need registration? It might restrict us to more serious
> users of KDE software (which could be a good and a bad thing). There are
> plenty of free (as in beer) survey sites where we could set this up. Of
> course, there are probably also some free software solutions that we could
> host ourselves. For the longer term that might make sense. Someone has to
> do
> it though ;-) ** *(3)* **
>
> > > This post has already become longer than I had intended. I'll just
> > > mention that the reason I saw it fit to post the idea here is that
> > > there's some relation between promotion and communications with users
> > > (developers/project and users). In a sense, surveys can be used to
> > > promote as well.
>
> Yes, we can talk about the survey and then talk about the results too...
>
> > > For example, a survey of people who switched from KDE
> > > to GNOME or Mac or Windows can help identify issues for desertion and
> > > address them.
>
> How do we reach those people? They might have stopped visiting KDE
> websites? ** *(3) ***
>
> > > Some questions for example:
> > > 1) Which part are you most (least) satisfied with in KDE: performance,
> > > stability, look, responsiveness, power management, power consumption,
> > > etc. 2) What is your computer configurations (Distribution, KDE SC
> > > version, processor, GPU, size of RAM)
> > > 3) What applications are you using most: Dolphin, PIM, Gwenview,
> Konsole,
> > > amaroK, etc.
> > >
> > > Anxious to have feedback
>
> These could be interesting questions. Some info on hardware might be quite
> useful for e.g. the KWin devs ** *(3) ***
>
> Cheers,
> Stu
>
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-- 
Ron

 
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