2018-08-28 Krita Fundraiser meeting log

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*** on Tue Aug 28 18:56:48 2018

[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:56:48] Topic	The channel topic is "Make sure you have registered your nick: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration -- otherwise you are invisible to all but channel ops because of the current wave of spam. | https://phabricator.kde.org/source/krita/. Unstable branch: master. Stable branch: krita/4.1 | Current stable release: 4.1.1 | off-topic chat: ##krita-chat".
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:56:48] Topic	The topic was set by [email protected] on 07-08-2018 16:52.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:57:33] Mode	Channel modes: no colours allowed, no messages from outside, secret, topic protection, z
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:57:33] Created	This channel was created on 27-01-2009 06:34.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:58:28] <boud>	hi skadinna
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:58:47] <skadinna>	hi boud :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:59:50] <scottyp>	is there that meeting in another couple minutes?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [18:59:53] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:00:04] <scottyp>	alright, wanted to make sure my time zone stuff was right
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:00:20] <boud>	************ MEETING STARTS ****************
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:00:26] <boud>	it was seconds, not minutes :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:00:35] <boud>	Allright, we've got two things to discuss.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:00:41] <boud>	The first is the september fund raiser
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:00:46] <boud>	Please see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F1-N3hPRQeDveoMQSyztWjuE55gaUnnvAgXNDLszniM/edit#heading=h.d9k06nba1iqy
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:01:00] <boud>	The second is our project infrastructure when it comes to getting donations
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:01:07] <boud>	That's https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vWPaX2IqoYGrE1xrT1iDbNfj7Z2sThmRIExWOUbdRS4/edit#
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:01:32] <boud>	Since everyone prefers to talk tools to talking tasks, lets not get started with the second item, but with the first...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:01:52] <boud>	So, timeframe
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:02:22] <dmitryK|log>	i'm here :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:02:30] <boud>	We're the 28th now, sort of inevitable after having baked most of august in weird weather, and then akademy
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:02:33] <irina>	I'm for starting on the 15th so we don't have to rush all the prep in 3 days
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:02:46] <boud>	So, I was wondering: is there any problem with starting on the 15th?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:03:06] <boud>	skadinna: do you know whether that clashes with other KDE efforts?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:03:25] <skadinna>	none I'm aware of
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:03:27] <boud>	(skadinna is one of the two kde-promo gurus)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:03:28] <dmitryK|log>	boud: will it last for one month?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:03:43] <boud>	dmitryK|log: that's the plan -- thirty days
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:03:44] <scottyp>	15th sounds good to me
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:04:14] <boud>	okay :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:04:27] <dmitryK|log>	heh... I wanted to have a short vacation in the end of september, but I forgot that we planned a campaign for it...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:04:35] <dmitryK|log>	:)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:04:49] <boud>	dmitryK|log: do take your vacation. If it's the end of december, you'll only miss the middle of the campaign.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:04:55] <boud>	september, I mean
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:05:21] <irina>	it's not much work once it's underway, I suppose
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:05:43] <boud>	yes, well, that's part of the script agenda item
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:05:47] <dmitryK|log>	anyway, the date looks fine for me
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:05:51] <boud>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:05:57] <boud>	*Goal* then
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:06:26] <boud>	So, we want money so we can spend on bug fixing, stability, polish, finishing up unfinished work.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:06:45] <boud>	I am a bit worried about the zero bugs goal... But does anyone have an idea for something attention grabbing that is less quixotic?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:07:07] <Wolthera_laptop>	halving the bugs? :D
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:07:12] <scottyp>	that sounds good. I think it would be good to go in a bit more depth with what polish means
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:07:28] <scottyp>	polish to us is going to be new features for other people
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:01] <boud>	scottyp: I was thinking of real polish -- fixing broken widget layouts, illegible tooltips, places where things pop up wrongly.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:01] <dmitryK|log>	10k -> 1/2; 20k -> 1/4; 30k -> 1/8 ?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:16] <scottyp>	ok, so polish is more fixing bugs
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:39] <boud>	not even real bugs, paper-cuts. The kind of usability work Nate Graham is reporting for plasma, only even more basic.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:46] <dmitryK|log>	and since the sequence is infinite, we can really set the goal to "zero bugs" :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:51] <scottyp>	are there certan bugs or things that will resonate with people
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:51] <boud>	dmitryK|log: :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:08:51] <tyyppi>	also if there's something in the unfinished features that a user would see / care about, we probably want to talk about that?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:09:15] <scottyp>	if we could be a little more concrete eventually, that would help
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:09:18] <boud>	tyyppi: I am not sure how that message would go... "We promised X, you got half X, now we want money for the rest of X"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:09] <boud>	dmitryK|log: let's talk money a bit later on, after the message
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:21] <tyyppi>	true... I guess I'm thinking more on the lines of "someone contributed this beginning of a feature, but no-one finished it"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:34] <scottyp>	maybe a count on all the bugs we have and what different areas they span...and what we plan on doing about it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:42] <boud>	scottyp: yes, that's a good idea
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:44] <irina>	"stable and clean" comes to mind
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:53] <dmitryK|log>	boud: i suggested it as an excuse for "zero bugs" wording :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:10:56] <boud>	sounds a bit like "strong and stable", though.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:12] <scottyp>	I like strong and stable more than zero bugs
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:17] <irina>	is that a slogan of something else that I should know?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:23] <scottyp>	zero bugs seems a bit like a pipe dream
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:29] 	 * dmitryK|log also likes "strong and stable" more than "zero bugs" :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:36] <boud>	scottyp: here's our bugs per component: https://bugs.kde.org/component-report.cgi?product=krita
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:52] <boud>	"Strong and Stable" was prime minister May's election slogan during the last general elections in GB
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:11:54] <scottyp>	ahh, that is a cool matrix
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:08] <Wolthera_laptop>	Maybe just aim for getting rid of all crashes? https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_severity=critical&bug_severity=grave&bug_severity=major&bug_severity=crash&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&list_id=1540396&product=krita&query_format=advanced << 32 crash/critical?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:08] <dmitryK|log>	boud: can we somehow make a predefines bugzilla search, which would be a counter on Krita main page?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:15] <boud>	dmitryK|log: sure
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:32] <boud>	"Read my lips, no more crashes"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:37] <Wolthera_laptop>	:p
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:44] <scottyp>	some of the bugs in there are wishlist items
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:12:50] <dmitryK|log>	Wolthera_laptop: the problem with crashes is that we might not be able to reproduce them
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:02] <Wolthera_laptop>	dmitryK|log: then we should close them?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:27] <dmitryK|log>	yes :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:31] <irina>	the "minor" bugs are probably the papercut annoyances that boud was talking about
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:34] <boud>	Okay, I think we've identified a task here: group bug reports into common areas, and let people vote on them.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:35] <irina>	mostly anyway
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:43] <irina>	yes! people love to vote!
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:56] 	 * irina volunteers for vote-counting again
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:13:58] <scottyp>	common areas would be good
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:14:16] <scottyp>	'we know we have a lot of bugs in X areas. we will squash them!"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:14:28] <irina>	I like "we will squash them"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:14:36] <irina>	someone could perhaps make a nice drawing of that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:14:45] <boud>	"Die Little Bug, Die!"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:14:47] <Wolthera_laptop>	but isn't that just 'resource management'? :p
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:14:48] <scottyp>	ahh. a drawing. great idea!
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:16:14] <boud>	So, should we link our buggy areas to the areas of interest we ranked at the sprint?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:16:23] <dmitryK|log>	boud: so you don't like "strong and stable" because of politics?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:16:29] <Wolthera_laptop>	dmitryK|log: yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:16:36] <boud>	dmitryK|log: yes, it's a very toxic phrase right now
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:16:44] <dmitryK|log>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:16:49] <boud>	also because, well, May has been anything but strong or stable.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:17:06] <Wolthera_laptop>	dmitryK|log: we should avoid political phrases in our marketting because otherwise people will just mock us instead of getting pumped at the stability.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:17:22] <scottyp>	is the $10K for voting on which bug areas to focus on?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:17:28] <scottyp>	or is that just to help prioritize them?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:17:42] <boud>	yeah, even our vector slogan was too close to slogans in american political life and people noticed that. And we were first!
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:17:50] <boud>	scottyp: right, amounts
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:18:21] <boud>	basically, what I learned in Vienna is that as soon as possible, we should show people we're over 50% -- but we should never be over 100%, so we we should have some sliding scale.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:18:54] <scottyp>	sliding scale meaning the stretch goal things?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:06] <scottyp>	milestone 1 reached...type of thing?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:08] <tyyppi>	hmm.. I wonder if we could arrange some nice round numbers of bugs to match goal levels :P
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:08] <boud>	kind of, but stretch goals are tricky
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:15] <boud>	That needs to be linked to something real, hence kickstarter's stretch goals. But we need to figure out what we can do at various levels of money, and that's tricky as well
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:24] <dmitryK|log>	do we all agree that we need some counter on teh front page, showing how many bugs left in the areas?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:39] <scottyp>	more money means more code fixes and changes...I think that is a pretty good reward
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:45] <boud>	because we're not really trying to fund activity A, B and C, but just a solid year of work.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:19:52] <boud>	dmitryK|log: yes, and we can have that.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:20:19] <dmitryK|log>	boud: then how are we going to hangle bugs turnover?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:20:34] <scottyp>	dmitryK|log: that sounds like something to think about after the campaign is over
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:20:40] <dmitryK|log>	i mean that the new bugs will be open in the meantime?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:20:42] <boud>	dmitryK|log: one thing I'm thinking of is to have a help desk like application as a buffer
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:20:55] <boud>	so, only the real bugs get through to bugzilla.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:21:19] <dmitryK|log>	boud: well, the question is about how we present the thing to the users:
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:21:44] <dmitryK|log>	1) with this project we are going to close 300 bugs in this area, even not yet existing
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:22:07] <dmitryK|log>	or 2) with this project we are going to make the amount of bugs in this area ero
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:22:22] <dmitryK|log>	*zero
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:22:54] <boud>	yes, that's the tricky bit, and maybe we should keep that a bit fuzzy.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:23:35] <scottyp>	I think the bugs down to zero is going to be difficult to do
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:23:43] <dmitryK|log>	just write "since campaign we fixed: XXX bug, YYY bugs left"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:23:46] <scottyp>	or to communicate as our bugs almost certainly won't get down to 0
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:24:02] <boud>	Sure, but it's what you aim for, it's the journey that counts... I mean, this is marketing, not physics.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:24:02] <scottyp>	we would almost have to make a predefined list of bugs
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:24:08] <tyyppi>	perhaps we could say something about our track on using donations to give some concrete examples for the not so concrete plans we have?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:24:52] <dmitryK|log>	yeah, i'm not sure there are bugs for top-to-bottom text :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:02] <boud>	tyyppi: yes... Last time, we asked you for money to implement X, Y, Z -- now we're asking you to help us make Krita X and Y.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:16] <boud>	(where X and Y are not strong and stable, but something else)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:26] <Wolthera_laptop>	Reliable?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:26] <scottyp>	yes, I think our history of funding and results would be good to bring up
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:46] <scottyp>	maybe they aren't fully fleshed out
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:52] <scottyp>	the foundation is there
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:25:55] <Wolthera_laptop>	Congeal Krita 4 asif it were 2.8 :p
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:26:08] <Wolthera_laptop>	Congeal krita to a solid rock
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:26:15] <Wolthera_laptop>	on which to build houses
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:26:29] <scottyp>	that is a nice word, but might be too complex for the average person
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:26:46] 	 * dmitryK|log is checking the dictionary
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:26:46] <Wolthera_laptop>	so is this whole meeting
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:26:57] <boud>	so, I don't think we need actual slogans and texts now -- just the direction and guidelines
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:27:20] <scottyp>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:27:22] <dmitryK|log>	so what we have already?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:27:22] <boud>	making sure we build on our track record is important, knowing we should not pin ourselves on X bugs squashed is important as well
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:27:45] <scottyp>	maybe it will just be "the new focus"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:28:15] <dmitryK|log>	boud: can we make some packs: 1) XXX bugs in area1; 2) YYY bugs in area2; 3) Some nice feature?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:28:39] <boud>	dmitryK|log: I would hesitate to put down numbers; let people choose and rank areas.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:28:44] <scottyp>	isn't that what the different milestone amounds are for?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:28:44] <Wolthera_laptop>	maybe we should focus the ideas into workflows?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:28:52] <irina>	perhaps new features aren't what we need now
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:28:53] <Wolthera_laptop>	Because that might be easier to react on for users
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:29:11] <dmitryK|log>	as far as I understand, we cannot state the "finish top-to-bottom text", right?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:29:11] <scottyp>	I think focusing on different areas would be best
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:29:18] <Wolthera_laptop>	"I am an animator/illustrator/game artist, so I care about these bugs and workflows"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:29:31] <dmitryK|log>	Wolthera_laptop: good idea
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:29:32] <boud>	dmitryK|log: no, I want to sort of gloss over the fact that some kickstarter features could use a bit of extra work.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:29:33] <Wolthera_laptop>	dmitryK|log: Something like that would go under "designer/comic artists" workflow.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:30:04] <boud>	Okay, I noted that.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:30:20] <Wolthera_laptop>	of course the danger with this is that we define game texturing and half the blender community starts voting on that.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:30:29] <boud>	eep
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:30:33] <Wolthera_laptop>	:p
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:31:20] <boud>	okay, anyone any really important last thought on this topic? otherwise, I would like to move on a bit.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:31:22] <dmitryK|log>	weird :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:31:32] <tyyppi>	maybe choose vague enough descriptions that all the important fixes fit any category ;)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:31:42] <irina>	lol yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:31:45] <scottyp>	I think we can do more with it once we get the different topics
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:31:57] <Wolthera_laptop>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:32:10] <boud>	right
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:32:15] <boud>	Okay, platform.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:32:27] <boud>	This is a bit more technical, but still not the CRM discussion
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:32:44] <dmitryK|log>	boud: you skipped amounts
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:32:50] <dmitryK|log>	is it correct?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:33:28] <dmitryK|log>	I just wanted to suggest that 10k could be "voted y default" and include all the general fixes, and voting would be done for extra areas
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:33:33] <scottyp>	my only question for the amount is what we would want to do differently for the different ones
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:33:39] <boud>	no, we discussed what they were for: to make sure that we're always over 50%, but never over 100%, and that we cannot relate amounts to things we do, because, basically, the amount of work we can do is inflexible. I'm sure I noted that above
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:33:50] <boud>	we could relate it to months of work, maybe
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:08] <scottyp>	ahh, that would be an idea
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:09] <boud>	3 months of bug fixing, 6 months of bug fixing
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:10] <irina>	should we make it clear that this isn't an all-or-nothing fundraiser, or would mentioning that explicitly keep people from donating?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:37] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:41] <Wolthera_laptop>	I think we should make that clear, it was intended more as a sort of festival.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:42] <boud>	I mean, we would make it clear
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:46] <irina>	ah right
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:50] <Managor>	Here we go
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:34:52] <scottyp>	yes, good idea
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:35:01] <boud>	Managor: we're in the middle of a fundraiser meeting
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:35:02] <Wolthera_laptop>	Get people to remember, "krita exists, plz donate, yo"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:35:14] <irina>	"whatever happens, we've got your contribution and we're gonna use it!"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:35:40] <irina>	I like the months of work idea
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:35:59] <Wolthera_laptop>	we'll have to figure out that if people can vote, when they should vote though...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:36:09] <Wolthera_laptop>	which brings us back to tools again
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:36:13] <boud>	16th of october
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:36:18] <scottyp>	will the bug fixing ever turn into features? will people not want to donate too much because they eventually want to see new features
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:36:28] <boud>	well, that's an experiment this year
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:36:35] <scottyp>	we can try it out
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:36:50] <boud>	we will have new features in 4.2 anyway, we already have :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:37:17] <Wolthera_laptop>	I think we'll get a lot of funds just for bugfixing, my experience is that users tend to like stabiliy a lot, compared to journo's who find it annoying because it is hard to write about a bugfix release.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:37:38] <Wolthera_laptop>	like, if I observe how people talk about stability.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:37:41] <irina>	now that we're not tied to kickstarter we can just make the survey in google forms or whatever
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:37:46] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:37:47] <boud>	platform
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:37:53] <boud>	Google Forms is fine
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:38:02] 	 * irina can do google forms, no problem
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:38:25] <irina>	anything is better than the kickstarter survey tool
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:38:34] <boud>	so, mollie is a payment provider that can handle all credit cards, paypal, bank transfer -- so I would like to be able to use that to get donations during the campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:38:48] <boud>	I already made an account. I need to flesh that out
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:38:57] <boud>	scottyp: then I need to work with you to use it on our donation page
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:38:59] <scottyp>	do you have to have an account for that?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:03] <scottyp>	mollie...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:05] <boud>	Not to give money
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:11] <boud>	https://www.mollie.com/en/
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:17] <irina>	only to receive and boud already made one
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:29] <dmitryK|log>	boud: does it work with "donations"?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:30] <boud>	It's dutch... So they probably thought that riffing on "gangster's moll" was a good idea. Or something
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:38] <boud>	dmitryK|log: yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:48] <irina>	the person sending money just uses their normal bank or credit card, I assume
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:50] <boud>	dmitryK|log: it's a pure payment provider, not a shop like paddle or gumroad
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:39:56] <irina>	it can also handle paypal
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:40:02] <dmitryK|log>	boud: i'masking just because paddle has explicit rule against donations
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:40:12] <dmitryK|log>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:40:34] <scottyp>	I see it accepts bitcoin. Are we including that in the numbers?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:40:41] <boud>	I would like to disable that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:41:08] <scottyp>	boud: does it have WordPress integration
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:41:15] <boud>	Yes, and it does provide on-site payment forms, so people don't have to leave krita.org to transfer the money
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:41:23] <scottyp>	alright. nice
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:41:31] <boud>	https://wordpress.org/plugins/tags/mollie/
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:42:06] <boud>	and I think also some direct integration, but we have to look into that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:42:23] <boud>	I don't think we'll have a real crm system setup in 16 days, so for now it'll have to be direct
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:42:36] <scottyp>	we might have to do the direct integration. These plugins look like they are for other platforms like WooCommerce
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:42:41] <irina>	the "mollie forms" plugin looks useful
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:43:01] <boud>	This one, maybe: https://wordpress.org/plugins/doneren-met-mollie/
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:43:02] <scottyp>	ahh. maybe that would work
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:43:17] <irina>	I think that's the Dutch version of the mollie forms one?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:43:27] <boud>	ah, maybe that's it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:43:33] <boud>	I was wondering why the company had two forms
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:44:06] <scottyp>	we can play around with it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:44:24] <boud>	so, would it be a good idea to have custom homepage during the campaign with the donation form central, and underneath campaign news?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:44:50] <scottyp>	there are a fair amount of people that don't enter through the homepage, so we might want stuff on more pages than that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:45:07] <irina>	then all the other pages could have a banner
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:45:14] <boud>	yes, banners should work, I guess?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:46:08] <scottyp>	is the homepage going to actually have all the campaign text?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:46:14] <dmitryK|log>	I had an idea that I would like to discuss with everyone: what if we tried to use "first donate, then download" approach for the duration of the campain?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:46:16] <scottyp>	or are we going to make a separate page for that?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:46:42] <dmitryK|log>	the user can donate 0$, but still, he ses a form for that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:46:53] <scottyp>	I thought that topic was in our infrastructure agenda
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:46:55] <boud>	scottyp: I'm just not too sure. We could imitate kickstarter with a campaign tab and a news tab, but that always seemed a bit complicated to me
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:47:31] <scottyp>	our pages can already have sections
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:47:48] <scottyp>	It might just be creating a new section on the website for the funding campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:48:06] <scottyp>	we might need to see how much text and content we have
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:48:17] <dmitryK|log>	sections is a good idea
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:48:17] <boud>	scottyp: I sort of feel that we shouldn't distract people from pressing the donate button with navigation menus and things
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:48:34] <boud>	at least, that's what the pro fund raisers have been telling me
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:48:48] <scottyp>	so you are thinking to make it look like a separate site?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:48:58] <scottyp>	usually taking off the navigation means it appears as a separate site
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:49:03] <boud>	striking image, big form with big buttons, news, then links to rest of the site
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:49:08] <dmitryK|log>	boud: the thing that we should avoid is an impression of a popup ad-like behavior
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:49:21] <dmitryK|log>	boud: I have a reflex of closing such stuff without reading it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:49:39] <boud>	dmitryK|log: yes, so let's not show something as a popup in the middle of the regular website.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:49:47] <scottyp>	we might want to just do a static HTML page that we can do all this in. It seems to be outside of all the WordPress integration stuff
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:50:23] <boud>	that would work for me, just a new index.html that looks good, shows the campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:50:34] <scottyp>	there isn't much value in putting it in WordPress if we are not going to use our normal navigation and format
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:50:40] <boud>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:50:52] <scottyp>	I think we can pick a custom homepage
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:51:06] <scottyp>	I think we can't just have homepage though
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:51:20] <boud>	no, the rest of the site needs to stay up (and have banners)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:00] <scottyp>	alright, I think I have an idea with how to do that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:04] <boud>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:21] <dmitryK|log>	and about downloads?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:21] <scottyp>	as long as people don't get too disoriented I think we will be ok
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:41] <dmitryK|log>	i think it is not aninfrastructure topic :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:44] <boud>	dmitryK|log: as for your idea: we would effectively ask people who go to krita.org for a donation first. I'm not sure I'd like to show a donation page when people go to krita.org/download
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:52:54] <boud>	and only after going through the form the download page
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:53:07] <scottyp>	I thought we were trying to push them to the fundraiser right now?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:53:28] <dmitryK|log>	boud: well, the two forms can be combined :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:53:55] <dmitryK|log>	boud: but I'm not sure it is easy to check in the second form if the user has already donated in the first form
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:53:59] <boud>	scottyp: I was only thinking of having the home page replaced with a donation page, not all pages. On the other pages, having a abanner should be good enough
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:54:16] <dmitryK|log>	the top banner, like we have now?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:54:28] <dmitryK|log>	or more banners?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:54:32] <scottyp>	boud: yes. I was thinking if people go to the homepage, it is still clear that it is the normal krita site
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:54:46] <dmitryK|log>	good poing
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:54:48] <boud>	dmitryK|log: top banner
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:54:50] <dmitryK|log>	*point
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:55:04] <boud>	I'm not sure I'm following it anymore
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:55:14] <dmitryK|log>	it should be clear that teh user got to krita website, but not to some fishing stuff
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:55:48] <boud>	I would replace the homepage, the place where you go if you go to https://krita.org to be a static page. It should _of course_ look like our branding. It should _of course_ not look like a fishing page, but like a campaign page
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:56:02] <scottyp>	is the static page having all the campaign stuff on it then?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:56:04] <boud>	I would not replace the whole rest of the site, except for the home page, with the campaign page
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:56:09] <Reptorian_01>	back to trying to fix my code
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:56:33] <boud>	scottyp: it would have a nice image, a big donation form and button, the campaign explanation and maybe campaign news. And then a link to the normal homepage
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:57:02] <scottyp>	ok, so it is the main campaign landing page where we explain everything
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:57:12] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:57:17] <scottyp>	where the top banners will just go to the homepage
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:57:44] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:57:53] <scottyp>	that makes sense
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:58:02] <boud>	the static campaign homepage, not the normal homepage :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:58:27] <scottyp>	yes, the static one
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:59:01] <scottyp>	I might have to play around with that. I don't think the current homepage has any other "page"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:59:12] <boud>	dmitryK|log: basically, the stats should show that the campaign is succesful, so a progress bar like we already have. We can add the bug number there as well, or the bugs squasehed number.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:59:14] <dmitryK|log>	i'm a bit lost in terms "static page" "home page" and "landing page". I hope you guys understand eash other correctly :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:59:42] <scottyp>	landing page and static page are the same thing
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [19:59:54] <scottyp>	which is the same thing as the campaign page
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:00:13] <dmitryK|log>	scottyp: is landingpage a part of wordpress?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:00:23] <scottyp>	it will have to be created
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:00:32] <irina>	landing page is the page where the user "lands" whey they type krita.org
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:01:06] <irina>	basically the index.html page (or something that that redirects to immediately so you don't see the actual index.html)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:01:14] <dmitryK|log>	okay, I think scottyp understands it. That is enough :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:01:27] <boud>	okay, I think scottyp and I understand each other as well
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:01:33] <boud>	* Script *
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:01:35] <scottyp>	we are pretty much having two homepages during this
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:01:40] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:02:13] <boud>	okay -- we have two events during the campaign; one is the release of Ramon's Krita Digital Atelier brush preset pack and tutorial DVD.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:02:24] <boud>	and we can release Krita 4.1.2
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:02:47] <boud>	I've put some other ideas in the Script part as well -- but maybe there's more we can do?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:03:14] <irina>	perhaps put 4.1.2 off until $amount is reached?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:03:16] <boud>	Seikusa: you'vefallen in the middle of a team meeting on the next fund raising campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:03:34] <boud>	irina: hm... I'm not sure that it wouldn't be more valuable to use it to drum up interest
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:03:52] <boud>	irina: we will release 4.1.2 at some point in any case
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:04:39] <dmitryK|log>	boud: should we make some videos about new features/fixes?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:04:50] <dmitryK|log>	boud: that are going to be released in 4.2?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:05:04] <boud>	dmitryK|log: good idea -- do you think we can get owly to do that?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:05:17] <dmitryK|log>	boud: if we have a list of them, yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:05:23] <boud>	if we have two videos, we'd have something every week
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:05:44] <skadinna>	if you have time and people to make videos, definitely go for it. videos always attract much more attention than just plain blog post updates
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:06:01] <boud>	right
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:06:17] <Reptorian_01>	is phabricator down?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:06:28] <boud>	scottyp: maybe we can use your next contributor video during the campaign as well?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:06:38] <scottyp>	using it?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:06:49] <dmitryK|log>	boud: do we have someone other than owly for videos?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:07:02] <boud>	scottyp: like, wait with a public release, and use it as the lead to a story "it's this easy to start working on krita"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:07:07] <boud>	Reptorian_01: looks like it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:07:16] <boud>	dmitryK|log: we can ask for volunteers
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:07:29] <scottyp>	boud: ahh I see. That might work
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:08:37] <dmitryK|log>	we planned something like inktober'like campaigns
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:08:44] <dmitryK|log>	oh, INKTOBER!!!!
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:03] <dmitryK|log>	it overlaps with the campaign, so we could use it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:16] <Wolthera_laptop>	what did you wanna do with it? Do we have much that is inking focused?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:35] <Reptorian_01>	i thought inktober was for inkscape
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:38] <boud>	free ink brush preset pack for everyone who particpates, twitters and links to the campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:41] <Wolthera_laptop>	no, it isn't.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:56] <boud>	maybe we can evern ask frenden to donate a krita ink brush pack?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:09:56] <dmitryK|log>	well, just, initially, we wanted to make a "festival"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:10] <dmitryK|log>	and by now we are talkign about a kickstarter campaign :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:19] <irina>	no kickstarter!
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:20] <Wolthera_laptop>	inktober is trademarked, so be careful
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:25] <boud>	oh
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:28] <dmitryK|log>	oh
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:41] <boud>	damn
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:10:54] <boud>	let's not touch it then
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:11:28] <Wolthera_laptop>	also, the person who runs it is uppity about it being done with REAL INK
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:11:35] <boud>	BAH
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:11:38] <boud>	Bah, I mean
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:11:41] <boud>	didn't want to shout
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:11:56] <dmitryK|log>	weird :(
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:12:05] <Wolthera_laptop>	pretentious
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:12:21] <scottyp>	I think no edit > undo is a part of inktober
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:12:40] <irina>	ah, that's the reason for the real ink
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:12:41] <dmitryK|log>	okay, anyway, if we are going to make it "festival", we should make some atr-buzz in social networks
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:13:30] <dmitryK|log>	*art-buzz
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:13:34] <boud>	Seikusa: you can /query me
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:13:53] <boud>	dmitryK|log: maybe we can add a weekly kiki draw competition
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:14:19] <dmitryK|log>	#kikidraws
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:14:27] <dmitryK|log>	:)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:14:31] <boud>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:15:11] <scottyp>	are we going to do many announcements before it begins?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:15:22] <scottyp>	it is usually good to build a little hype around it early
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:15:22] <dmitryK|log>	can we have soem gifts for winners?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:15:32] <tyyppi>	#101facesOfKiki :P
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:15:44] <boud>	dmitryK|log: sure
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:15:49] <boud>	scottyp: good point
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:16:06] <dmitryK|log>	boud: we can even put winners to the donation front page
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:16:14] <scottyp>	it doesn't have to be anything crazy. maybe just a bit of information about it coming up once we have it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:16:24] <dmitryK|log>	boud: (but the pictire should be selected by us, not blind voting)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:16:28] <boud>	yeah
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:16:50] <boud>	otherwise you'd get camel-toe kiki featuring all month, my trust in humanity has been shattered by a month of freenode spam
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:17:08] <dmitryK|log>	:)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:17:37] <dmitryK|log>	any physical gifts, like postcards or something?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:17:55] <boud>	maybe, I don't want to really pin us down on that.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:18:06] <irina>	not a *lot* of physical gifts! but we might send something to the winners of the drawing competition
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:18:07] <scottyp>	maybe bigger ones. I thought we didn't want to do much physical stuff
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:18:15] <scottyp>	*bigger donations
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:18:22] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:18:28] <irina>	I'm not doing the endless postbags thing again (and anyway we don't have time to have stuff made)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:19:09] <irina>	do we use ramon's pack as reward for some high-ish donation tier?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:19:31] <scottyp>	outside of simple things like postcards and maybe stickers, we shouldn't do much else I think
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:19:39] <boud>	we could make a kind of digital lucky dip in the rewards we still have left... But I'm not really in favor
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:19:40] <Wolthera_laptop>	no
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:20:05] <boud>	Wolthera_laptop: no about ramon's brush pack?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:20:20] <Wolthera_laptop>	no, about the complicated physical rewards
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:20:23] <boud>	okay :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:20:48] <boud>	I did intend to offer a download of the brush pack + videos for everyone donating 50+ euros, or something like that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:21:17] <dmitryK|log>	that might be a good option
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:21:52] <boud>	though it's tricky, because if we put it in the shop for 49,95, it might be counted in sales. And if we put it in the shop for 24,99, people might feel ripped off, unless we put it in the shop at the same time, for that price.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:22:04] <boud>	shop income goes to BRS, donations to the Foundation.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:22:28] <boud>	not sure what people would feel would be most fair.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:22:31] <scottyp>	unless you can bump it up to 100 euro donations get the videos
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:22:48] <scottyp>	it is a fundraising campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:22:55] <boud>	oh, split that up? That's an interesting idea, though still, donation = shop price * 2, would that work?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:22:55] <pursuivant>	New bug 397995 in krita (Color Selectors) filed by [email protected] [NOR - normal]: Krita Assert when clicking over the new Artistic Color Selector Gamut Mask shape using the Edit Shapes Tool (https://bugs.kde.org/397995)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:23:42] <scottyp>	I didn't think about that for other items. just the video thing
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:23:49] <dmitryK|log>	boud: will it have tax complications?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:24:24] <irina>	if we don't release the video for sale until after Oct 16 it's an added "get it early" incentive
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:24:24] <irina>	and because it's not an all-or-nothing campaign we can send it as soon as they donate
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:24:55] <boud>	irina: that should work fine
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:25:03] <boud>	dmitryK|log: that's what I'm trying to be careful about
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:25:43] <dmitryK|log>	irina: but if we don't release it until Oct 16, then we will not have publicity, not?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:26:05] <irina>	if we don't release it *for sale*
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:26:13] <boud>	we will show off the trailer, the images, maybe the first chapter, before then, and make it available for download for the donors
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:27:08] <dmitryK|log>	boud: it might be tricky if donors will later see that the video is sold for a half the price later
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:27:27] <scottyp>	they are donors! They are not buying merchandise
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:27:29] <boud>	that's what I just said, but scottyp countered that it should be clear that this is a fund-raiser.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:27:35] <dmitryK|log>	how to communicate that clearly enough?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:27:57] <Wolthera_laptop>	maybe just not do any such rewards then.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:27:59] <irina>	we didn't have trouble with the USB sticks either, when we had that as a $100 kickstarter reward
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:28:07] <boud>	If you donate 50 euros, you get the presets, if you donate 100 euros the presets and the videos. The whole bundle will be for sale after October 15th for 39,95
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:28:28] <scottyp>	people are donating because they want to see Krita improve, not get merchandise
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:28:49] <dmitryK|log>	well, there might be people how want that merchandise and don't want to wait
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:28:52] <boud>	Seikusa: no
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:28:53] <irina>	kickstarters are much more about the merchandise, that's one reason we're not using the kickstarter platform
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:04] <dmitryK|log>	I don't hear Seikusa bw
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:06] <boud>	dmitryK|log: then they have to sit on their hands
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:18] Mode	ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to irina.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:19] <boud>	Seikusa: if you're not registered, only I can see your messages
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:26] <irina>	and I, now
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:29] <scottyp>	dmitryK|log: if they want the merchandise, they can wait until it goes on sale
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:40] <scottyp>	or is avaiable in the store I mean
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:41] <boud>	I think we're starting to go in rounds
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:45] <scottyp>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:53] <boud>	We've got a bunch of good ideas, now we need to work them out
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:29:55] <scottyp>	what topic are we on
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:30:04] <dmitryK|log>	script
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:30:07] <boud>	Script -- or ideas to keep the campaign lively
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:30:14] <boud>	The other things are todo's
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:02] <boud>	skadinna: among those todo's are there things we have missed?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:11] <boud>	Like the list of mails and announcements we need to write?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:14] <Reptorian_01>	phabricator still down
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:27] <dmitryK|log>	skadinna:  I don't hear you as well :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:52] <dmitryK|log>	boud: can you voice up skadinna on a channel?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:53] <skadinna>	I didn't type anything, looks like there's a lag on my side, sorry
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:31:59] <dmitryK|log>	ah, sorry :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:32:05] <scottyp>	one complication with changing the entire homepage is that krita.org is available in 7 languages. We probably aren't going to have our campaign translated into that many
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:32:22] <skadinna>	anyway, looking through the list, I think you've got it all covere
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:32:27] <boud>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:32:29] <skadinna>	*covered, wow
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:32:39] <boud>	skadinna: if you think of something else, grab me on #kde-promo
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:32:58] <skadinna>	absolutely! and Paul might also have some ideas
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:33:04] <boud>	right
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:33:23] <dmitryK|log>	btw, mollie forms are also not translated into russian
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:33:57] <scottyp>	our website doesn't have a Russian version either though
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:33:58] <dmitryK|log>	we should probably check other languages
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:34:02] Mode	ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to irina.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:34:18] <scottyp>	it being in other languages is a good thing to think about for Mollie
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:34:52] <boud>	This is what there is now: https://help.mollie.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000017949-Is-it-possible-to-render-the-text-in-the-payment-screen-in-a-different-language-
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:35:32] <irina>	ah, English unless your browser language is in the (short) list
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:35:46] <boud>	Stripe does Japanese, German, French, Simplified Chinese, Spanish, Italian, and Dutch.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:36:09] <irina>	not Russian either
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:36:09] <dmitryK|log>	English, French, German, and Spanish is a good list anyway :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:36:24] <irina>	Chinese and Japanese would be an advantage
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:36:27] <boud>	We're a bit spoiled in KDE with having so many translations available.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:36:33] <Wolthera_laptop>	:p
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:36:59] <dmitryK|log>	okay, so do we have any other ideas for "script" topic?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:37:04] <boud>	no
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:37:15] <boud>	and we had already left it :-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:37:29] <boud>	I want to give a quick update of the meeting I had today with the civicoop consultant
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:37:41] <boud>	and then close the meeting
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:37:47] <boud>	I also put notes in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vWPaX2IqoYGrE1xrT1iDbNfj7Z2sThmRIExWOUbdRS4/edit#
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:37:55] <boud>	(At the end)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:38:35] <boud>	But basically, we had a productive meeting during which he showed us how to configure things, implement email automation and website integration.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:38:41] <Wolthera_laptop>	tl;dr: it'll reduce a huge headache for boud and irina in regards to managaging donations and follow up actions to those donations(postcards, thank you mails, tutorials, etc)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:38:46] <boud>	:-)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:38:58] <boud>	even notifying irina that a postcards needs to be sent can be automated easily
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:39:24] <scottyp>	nice
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:39:51] <dmitryK|log>	will we be in time to set it up by 15th?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:39:55] <Wolthera_laptop>	it's also how we got on mollie: the guy said they had experience with integrating it into civicrm, and has all the payment providers we need.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:39:56] <Wolthera_laptop>	no
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:40:05] <boud>	dmitryK|log: no, that's fairly unlikely
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:40:09] <Wolthera_laptop>	dmitryK|log: we'll have to do something simplified for now.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:40:31] <boud>	dmitryK|log: we'll need a day together with a consultant for getting things setup and to give irina and me a bit of tra
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:40:37] <Wolthera_laptop>	ining
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:40:38] <Wolthera_laptop>	:p
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:40:44] <boud>	yes...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:41:01] <boud>	Also, we need to resist all temptation to do complicated stuff, especially to begin with
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:41:16] <scottyp>	the fundraising thing is quite a bit. We might not want to do too much in too short a time
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:41:23] <Wolthera_laptop>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:41:26] <scottyp>	the more we do the more taxing it is going to be
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:41:40] <dmitryK|log>	I like this idea: "add a field so people can give feedback when making a donation"
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:41:57] <scottyp>	I think paypal already does that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:42:20] <boud>	scottyp: yes, but only on some donation buttons -- we have a couple, and not all of them seem to allow that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:42:28] <scottyp>	ahh ok
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:42:29] <boud>	and few people do, it's a bit inconspicuous
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:42:30] <dmitryK|log>	it may even have two parts (like in GSoC): public (that will be in he list of "people recently donated") and private for the foundation
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:43:26] <boud>	I have thought of having a list like that, like https://www.kde.org/community/donations/previousdonations.php
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:43:30] <dmitryK|log>	boud: I mean there is a point "social proof on landing page" <- it can be filled with the notes written by people who donated
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:43:37] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:44:02] <boud>	but first I want to replace our existing donations, dev fund and after-download-donations page with something that works like what we have, only makes it trackable
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:44:16] <boud>	when we've got something, we can start making it fancier
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:44:21] <dmitryK|log>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:44:34] <scottyp>	if we switch to Mollie, we will also have to figure out how to bring that back to the site. Right now the site has no way of showing that
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:44:43] <scottyp>	unless there is something built into Mollie to tracking funding campaigns
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:45:08] <boud>	scottyp: I need to look into that, but I'm fairly certain that something like that exists.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:45:48] <scottyp>	there probably is. It took a little while to get that working with paypal. I had to setup a new database with KDE and figure out the Paypal SDK to save and retrieve stuff
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:45:49] <boud>	I wish we could've switched the order, though, have civicrm + mollie + caldera forms setup first, and then start the campaign.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:46:06] <Wolthera_laptop>	hindsigh is 20/20
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:46:31] <scottyp>	how long would it take to setup civiccrm + mollie + caldera?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:46:32] <raghukamath>	sorry got in late
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:46:33] <boud>	arriere-soupir...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:46:54] <boud>	scottyp: no idea, we first have to make an appointment with the consultant
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:47:00] <scottyp>	ahh ok
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:47:02] <boud>	no way I'm going to try this on my own
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:47:11] <raghukamath>	boud just to be cautious can we get some tax advice prior to anything
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:47:21] <boud>	raghukamath: yes, I can ask my accountants
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:47:26] <scottyp>	worst case with the funding bar. That might just have to be manually updated once a day or so
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:48:36] <boud>	the very worst case, we'll run the campaign with the existing paypal button, which we know works. We can see about that.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:48:44] <scottyp>	that is true
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:48:59] <raghukamath>	also regarding the campaign homepage, there should atleast be a download krita link, rest everything can be changed IMO
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:49:21] <raghukamath>	sorry for breaking the flow of the meeting
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:49:33] <scottyp>	raghukamath: the main call to action is the campaign, so having a big download button might be confusing
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:49:48] <raghukamath>	scottyp: not button, just some link will also do
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:49:51] <dmitryK|log>	boud: can we at least switch to mollie before that?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:49:56] <scottyp>	the goal of the homepage seems to be we want to force people to see it
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:50:03] <dmitryK|log>	boud: so that credit cards would be handles a bit better?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:50:06] <scottyp>	instead of just having a banner like we previously did
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:50:13] <dmitryK|log>	*handled
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:50:25] <raghukamath>	scottyp: like support us button for campaign and in some description use krita and see for yourself
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:50:59] <raghukamath>	my concern was we should not disturb people who came to only download krita
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:04] <boud>	dmitryK|log: the goal is to handle credit cards -- without having to go through paypal
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:10] <scottyp>	raghukamath: which is most people
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:34] <boud>	raghukamath: erm -- that's the goal, I want to disturb them, that is, call their attention to the fund raiser.
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:43] <raghukamath>	:)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:45] <boud>	raghukamath: not just activate people who already use krita
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:50] <raghukamath>	understood
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:53] <boud>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:51:57] <boud>	I'm a bit frazzled...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:09] <boud>	We've been in the meeting for nearly two hours, which is pretty long
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:13] <scottyp>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:16] <irina>	the meeting with the consultant was quite intensive, too
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:40] <boud>	So, I would like
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:41] <boud>	to
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:46] <boud>	************ END THE MEETING ************
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:52:52] <boud>	unless there's AOB...
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:53:16] <raghukamath>	boud scottyp what will be a away to retain those peoples attention then, i mean if they came to download then not finding it will make some bounced traffic, so our message should also be good
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:53:34] <boud>	kiki will keep their attention!
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:54:07] <raghukamath>	okay
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:54:16] <boud>	if we notice that downloads fall off by, like, 50% during the first campaign week, we can always rethink
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:55:10] <dmitryK|log>	boud: I didn't unerstand that you are going to implement mollie before the campaign to handle credit cards without paypal?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:55:38] <boud>	dmitryK|log: we're going to try to use mollie instead of paypal for the campaign, but without the civicrm backend
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:56:07] <dmitryK|log>	boud: okay, good! now it is clear :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:56:09] <scottyp>	we will try and see how it goes. if it takes too long, we might have to continue to use paypal
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:56:14] <boud>	yes
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:56:25] <raghukamath>	what about video
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:56:34] <dmitryK|log>	boud: do we plan to discuss anything else?
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:56:43] <irina>	not in this meeting, no
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:57:38] <dmitryK|log>	okay, then I can go offline now :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:57:41] <raghukamath>	boud the plan written in docs sound good, if there are any changes or improvement we can make as we proceed with the campaign
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:57:42] <dmitryK|log>	see you! :)
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:58:09] <raghukamath>	also prior to releasing the payment mechanism etc, it may help to do a test run
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:58:55] <raghukamath>	goodnight
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:59:08] <scottyp>	that is a good idea. We haven't used it, so it is possible there might be problems
[Tuesday 28 August 2018] [20:59:49] <raghukamath>	yes