Re: Standard Middle-Click Functionality

>As for the earlier comments about whether people even have a middle
>button, my comment is, I've been putting in wishes to make my fourth
>and fifth mouse buttons usefull (i.e. Browser back button).  So I think
>to say we should make the 3rd mouse button usable has probably
>already been discussed in terms of the 4th, 5th and others.  If you can
>make all buttons usable in KDE (without having to edit X11 config files)

There are a lot of things KDE needs. It should have a method by which any 
input device can be configured to do something (actions in a list, capture 
input as most key-binding tools do, then have things do stuff). That's a 
long way off, I expect, and might never happen. It's not only hard to 
program, it's hard to design on any level, and also hard to get adopted in a 
general manner. It's one huge amount of work. As I mentioned to another, it 
merely needs to not be hard-coded. If it can be changed, that's really 
enough. It's up to distros to set up good defaults, and power-users can edit 
the config files.

>then the only idea seeing floating around here is how to improve the
>"What's This" feature, which unless it has improved in the last 10 months,
>I don't think it is very useful as it is(it's as incomplete as KDE Docs).

And, you are correct, what-is help often sucks. However, that's another 
problem, right up there with getting good documentation. Middle-click for a 
useful tip is the right functionality. Getting the help there should also 
happen, and I know it won't be perfect.

Part of the problem is that there is no easy way to write help for a 
project. If someone gave me a way to just write-up extended tool-tips for a 
program, send them in, and have them merged, I'd do them for all my favorite 
programs. I don't mind writing docs. I don't program, but I write docs and 
do design.

One reason the what-is help is nowhere is a bit of a chicken-and-egg 
problem, as are many things. What-is help is currently kinda hard to use, 
especially for how little you get in return. You find the '?' button (which 
wastes screen space), click it, move to what you were at a moment before, 
and get a short bit of info that might be useful.

Help systems are proporionately harder for better returns. However, it is 
enough harder that the ratio of work to gain is about equal. You load up the 
system dig a bit, and maybe find what you needed (by the way, all help 
systems should have a built-in help system)

The purpose of using the middle-click for that help is to make the 
work-to-gain ratio better. No extra mouse motion, no wasted screen space. 
Just click, get help. Right now, so few people use the what-is help that 
hardly anyone makes it properly.

>So, as for the 3rd mouse button, all we are talking about is, "What
>should be the default for the 3rd, 4th, etc. buttons?"

The point is, the 3rd mouse button is common. 3-button mice are ubiquitous. 
4-button and 5-button mice are not. Many people have them, but they are not 
close to standard. Also, they have nothing approaching a standard layout. As 
for what those buttons do, I think that should be determined by application 
(next/previous page in Konqueror? adjust active color hue in GIMP?). The 
fact is, there aren't too many standard actions.

However, there are four standard actions:

1) Use the target
2) Select the target
3) Do something to the target
4) Get help on the target

Currently, only the first three are supported. Left click to use a button or 
select an item. Double-left-click to use a file, or similar. Right click for 
a menu of options to do with/to the target. Adding middle-click for help 
covers those actions. Is there a standard action, something you can do to 
most anything and want to do at all commonly, that isn't covered there?

>Also, one of the things I don't like about multiple mouse buttons that I
>think KDE should sit down and work out right away, is to specify very
>clearly exactly what each button does(unless it's only going to be used
>as some kind of a short-cut).

Quite precisely. The middle button should be used for help when targetting a 
button/object, and for pasting when targetting an empty field.

>For example, one idea that popped into
>my head was to clearly seperate configuration options from drop-down menus,
>this way we will always know how to find the configuration for something.  
>I
>haven't actually thought about the logistics or anything, but I hope you 
>get
>the essence of my point and don't take the details to heart.

I truly do not know what you mean by this. Could you possibly explain it 
differently?



I believe I was rambling at some point in this, but can't remember where. 
Sorry.

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