Re: New computer

On Sunday 15 Aug 2010 2:51:52 pm ianseeks wrote:
> On Saturday 14 August 2010 22:07:20 Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > On Friday 13 August 2010, ianseeks wrote:
> > > On Friday 13 August 2010 19:52:49 Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > > > On Friday 13 August 2010, ianseeks wrote:
> > > > > On Friday 13 August 2010 09:44:01 O. Sinclair wrote:
> > > > > > Got a new laptop and am busy installing it. So far so good.
> > > > > > Next step is to move data from old to new.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This time I am not going for the easiest solution, to copy
> > > > > > everything under /home/myname, but I want an as clean as
> > > > > > possible solution. BUT want my mail, my mail accounts, my
> > > > > > contacts, notes and information such as replied-to, filters
> > > > > > etc copied over.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I am aware of this info:
> > > > > > http://userbase.kde.org/KMail/FAQs_Hints_and_Tips#Transfer_mail
> > > > > > _and _setting
> > > > > > s_to_another_computer_.28or_another_user_account_on_the_same_ma
> > > > > > chi ne.29
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > but is it still up to date after KAdressbook started using
> > > > > > Akonadi?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I also found this in an old email:
> > > > > > Substitute the appropriate path below.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You need the following config files:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/emaildefaults
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/emailidentities
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/kmail.eventsrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/kmailrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/kaddressbookrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/kresources/contact
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/korgacrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/korganizerrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/knotesrc
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > and the following directories:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > .kde4/share/apps/kmail
> > > > > > .kde4/share/apps/kabc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/apps/korganizer
> > > > > > .kde4/share/apps/knotes
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If you use Akregator within Kontact, you will also need:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/akregator.eventsrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/akregatorrc
> > > > > > .kde4/share/config/kopete.eventsrc
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > and the whole .kde4/share/apps/akregator directory.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > is that a more "complete" list and has something changed since
> > > > > > migration to Akonadi (this was pre-Akonadi Contacts)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Wouldn't it be nice to have a ".kontact" folder that included
> > > > > links to all the kontact data scattered all over your home
> > > > > directory then you could just type one "cp" command.
> > > > 
> > > > Nice idea. But this would only allow you to backup the data easily.
> > > > On the new system you still would have to put all files into the
> > > > correct locations.
> > > 
> > > Yes, i think this is a big problem that goes wider than kontact.
> > > There seems to be no standard that all the apps should follow where
> > > data and config files reside.  They all seem to make it up as they
> > > go along.
> > 
> > No. They don't.
> > 
> > For KDE applications this is pretty much standardized:
> > - settings are stored in ~/.kde/share/config
> > - data is stored in ~/.kde/share/apps/<appname>
> 
> Except kmail is ~/Mail in my home directory and the home directory is
> littered with "." files.  Its all a matter of making things
> self-explanatory e.g. why is the data directory
> "~/.kde/share/apps/<appname>" not called
> "~/.kde/data/<appname>"
> All "." files should be under a directory called ".config" (or similar)
> Home directories should not be littered with files, it looks like the very
> old MSDOS days where people should file in the route directory until it
> filled up.
> 
> > It gets a bit more complicated because of background components used by
> > many KDE applications, e.g. kabc (the old KDE service for accessing
> > address books) or Nepomuk.
> 
> Yes, thats why its got to be rationalised to make it more user friendly and
> self explanatory.  Its probably a task for for a Usability team to create a
> simple template structure that all KDE programs should follow and not get
> into the main stream until the adhere to the standard.
> 
> > And then there is Akonadi which is not a KDE background component.
> > Therefore Akonadi uses the standard locations for non-KDE components,
> > i.e.
> > ~/.config/akonadi - for settings
> > ~/.local/share/akonadi - for data
> 
> I understand that Akonadi is not a KDE component but as it is being
> integrated into main KDE programs and is now by association, an absolute
> KDE app dependency as certain apps will not run without it. In my opinion,
> it should follow the KDE config and data structures.
> 
> > So, the problem is not that we use random locations for settings and
> > data (they are not random). The problem is that you need to know which
> > background components are relevant for Kontact.
> 
> Thats more or less my point.  They may not be random to a developer but as
> a user i shouldn't need to know this sort of developers detail. I should
> just be able to "cp/rsync" a single directory for the whole of kontact or
> if i want just to back up kmail then its "cp/rsync" "kontact_dir/kmail" -
> i shouldnt care if the data is stored in old or new formats
> 
> > Regards,
> > Ingo
> 
> I hope you see this as constructive criticism and not an attack on KDE.
> Obviously a comprehensive backup app would help.

Essentially, there are two standards followed in a KDE desktop. The KDE 
standard and the XDG standard. All KDE apps follow the KDE standard 
($HOME/.kde/share/[config|apps]). The XDG standard ($HOME/.config & 
$HOME/.local/share) is a freedesktop standard and AFAIK is a newer standard.

Akonadi is not really a KDE application and is intended to be used outside of 
KDE too.

There once was a discussion about moving all of KDE to the newer XDG standard 
but that can cause much headache and as hence been "postponed" to a later 
major release. Nobody, as i recall, was in objection that it was to be done... 
someday.
-- 
Cheers!
Kishore