Re: Here is my Centipede scepticism

>> And this is the main idea with it all, right? Centipede
>> will reduce the complexity of you ant build scripts,
>> since it uses reusable cents.
> 
> Not only. Also because it will remove the jar download hell by 
> downloading jars and the dependency hell by doing multi-project builds.
> These are equally important, if not more.

This is at the core of my ignorance. I thought
it was just cents. I'm not overly convinced
about the download hell solution, but multi-
project builds certainly needs all the help it
can get.

>> My claim is that it doesn't work! I can't use your javadoc
>> cent, since it doesn't do what I want. I can't use your
>> JUnit cent (I assume there is such a thing) since it can't
>> possibly know the names of the JUnit classes I want to
>> run.
> 
> Well, the rule is the 80-20: do 80% of what you need with 20% the 
> complexity. If the javadoc task does not do what you want, then it means 
> that we have to make it better, so RFEs are welcome.

I'm not sure it *can* be fixed, but I agree that a
default javadoc cent may be fine for 80% of all
users.

> Which is a pity. Please resist and persist, I'm sure we will make them 
> ok for you :-)

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how to do it. We all
use different external libraries (jars), and versions
of jars, and if you want to use JavaDoc to link to
these libraries, then where do you specify the link
to these libraries on the net? In ant it is pretty
simple. Adding them instead to a specific Centipede
config file would work, but you'd created a system
that was more complex than the original.

Oh well.

>> Autodownload of jars sounds scary to me, but I'm sure it
>> solves real problems in real environments.
> 
> Well, not scary, it just gets the jars for you instead of going to all 
> the sites to get them by hand. It also reduces CVS bandwidth problems, 
> that are to be remembered, especially for Apache and other OS sites.

Right. I can see that.

>> So, does this mean that Centipede is mostly useful in
>> really complex environments, but overkill for smaller
>> projects?
> 
> It's really useful in really complex environments and in really simple 
> ones (ideally only write the decriptor and the cents to use).
> For in-between uses it's not *so* compelling, but as soon as you will 
> move into more complex builds, you will start seeing returns.

OK, I see.

> So let's focus on your cent "problems". What I'm still a bit confused 
> about is the fact that you don't see how they can work, but still would 
> like to have them work... what would you *really* like? What do you have 
> in mind about what they should do for you?

I frankly can't see how to fix it, or rather, how it
can be fixed and you'd call the result good. But I
don't really need to have it fixed, because my JavaDoc
task in ant is so simple, and doesn't need to be fixed
at all, for me.

Mats




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