Re: Re: Conca : a small interpreter
<[email protected]> 01 May 2014 03:17:34 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.concatenative |
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<p>>Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:53 pm (PDT) . Posted by:<br>>"Claude Marinier"<br>><br>>On Wed, 30 Apr 2014, [email protected] wrote:<br>>><br>>> Interestingly, from the point of view of error checking, the simplified<br>>> version of my own Furphy (see<br>>> http://users.beagle.com.au/peterl/furphy.html) doesn't have any possible<br>>> compile time errors apart from insufficient memory. ALL possible source<br>>> is syntactically valid, and run time checks are the only meaningful<br>>> ones! But I also have immediate words to run during compilation to<br>>> provide syntactic sugar, which not only makes some syntax like matching<br>>> square brackets and quotation marks necessary, it also provides natural<br>>
> places to test for errors in them. Ideally, the compiler builds up a<br>>> pretty printed listing as it goes, and syntax failures simply drop error<br>>> annotations into that while keeping track of the error level reached and<br>>> making safe-ish default assumptions to try to fill in mismatches; at the<br>>> end, just before the compiler triggers its compile-and-go run time<br>>> execution, it should check the error level and only run if an immediate<br>>> word has specified a safe higher error level than a default of no errors<br>>> (and there should be a default output of the listing at that stage<br>>> whether the program runs or not, unless another immediate word has<br>>> stopped that).<br>>><br>>> A good all r
ound guide to this whole area is P.J.Brown's "Writing<br>>> Interactive Compilers and Interpreters".<br>><br>>I tend to read e-mail from this account in the evening (North America,<br>>EDT).<br><br>I am in Australia; it's around 8 p.m. right now.<br><br>><br>>I am reading and digesting what you say. That's a lot to think about.<br>><br>>Yes, there is so lottle syntax that all programs are valid. The issue here<br>>is type checking. At run-time, built-in words check the type of the data<br>>they use. The dynamic nature of the language make this the default<br>>behaviour. Static type checking requires knowledge of what the caller<br>>expects (usually easy) and of what the caller is providing (much more<br>>difficult).<br><br>T
he issue is partly what the syntax features offer a programmer by holding his hand and making him do the right thing, and partly what functionality can be provided most easily that way. For instance, you can do object oriented programming in C even though it doesn't have the features for coding it directly, but the features for that in C++ make it easier.<br><br>Since I come from a Forth-ish orientation, I don't want to constrain the programmer too much. Rather, I have found that careful choice of meaningful word names helps a lot here by making him think through what he is doing. So called "Hungarian notation" - naming guidelines to reflect conceptual types (i.e. what the programmer has in mind as a type, not what the virtual machine will insist on) - may help too.
<br><br>Over and above that, I have found Forth stack commenting helpful, e.g. ( true/false val1 val2 --- val ) is a comment for Furphy's IF that should make it clear that it expects three parameters, of which the first should be conceptually Boolean but the others are unrestricted, and leaves just one unrestricted value. I have thought about using a variant of that comment formalism to set up "assertions", i.e. pieces of run time code that are only triggered during testing and return error messages if parameters and results don't match the assertions. That might perhaps be extended to static testing during compilation.<br><br>For me, types don't look as promising as a coding guideline so much as for implementing object oriented stuff; Wirth's Oberon family of l
anguages implements object orientation by using type extension, so it should be possible. If I ever add it to Furphy, first I will look hard at Oberon and FICL (an object oriented Forth).<br><br>><br>>This is starting to look like "more than I can chew"(1).<br>><br>>Thanks for the comments.<br>><br>>(1) American English has an abundant supply of colourful idiomatic<br>>expressions. :-)<br><br>Although I am in Australia, I am in fact British, of a third generation of world travellers. "Biting off more than you can chew" isn't U.S. English in particular, just English. Then again, French has not a few such expressions of its own; "faire suer le burnous" (mes parents habitaient et travaillaient en Algers entre 1944 et 1948, et s'y re
ncontraient) and "aller aux fraises" come to mind, just off the top of my head (which is itself an expression). PML.<br><br>><br>>-- <br>>Claude Marinier</p>
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#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
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