Re: Rabbit-vm
Jon Purdy <[email protected]> Mon, 5 May 2014 14:19:51 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.concatenative |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAE3FWBv4XMm5C8sd01HTcp4paYoCNOqPdZKJbcgVUnp=BKuDsA@mail.gmail.com> |
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> I would like to use () instead of [].
Syntax design is hard. The argument for [] is that they=E2=80=99re non-shif=
t
keys (on US keyboards) and they free up parentheses for their more
common meanings of grouping (mathematics) or comments (natural
language). I use {} for code quotations in Kitten because they give
you a syntax more resembling C, and that frees up [] for data
quotations (vectors).
> Factor, with its 224MB-installation seems a lot more than i can chew.
I agree. :)
> () (1 2 3) uncons (swons)dip
> () (1 2 3) uncons swons^
We talked about this briefly on the Concatenative Programming G+
group[1], namely that higher-order functions are something like
adverbs, and seem to work well when they look syntactically like
inflections. You could make the combination of word+symbol invoke
=E2=80=9C(word) symbol=E2=80=9D and avoid a lot of nesting without making =
=E2=80=9C^=E2=80=9D special.
[1]: https://plus.google.com/103392068634106050064/posts/gEkDANFd7qp
> (name)
> `name
>
> This is a small difference. The improvement is not in typing but in readi=
ng: `name is most of the time a name, passed to a function.
I read those differently:
(name) =3D =E2=80=9Cpush a new quotation which calls =E2=80=98name=E2=80=99=
=E2=80=9D
`name =3D =E2=80=9Cpush the word =E2=80=98name=E2=80=99 itself=E2=80=9D
Of course, they can have the same implementation.
> From time to time i run into a pattern like this:
> fac-2 doesn't work! Because copy+paste didn't change the name fac-1 into =
fac-2.
>
> fac-1: ( 0 =3D )( zap 1 )( dup 1 - fac-1 * )if*
>
> fac-2: dup 0 =3D ( zap 1 )( dup 1 - fac-1 * )if/
>
>
> In the following 'loop' is just a symbol, that is going to be replaced by=
the name of the currently defined word. This saves typing and is an improv=
ement on legibility.
>
> fac-1: ( 0 =3D )( zap 1 )( dup 1 - loop * )if*
>
> fac-2: dup 0 =3D ( zap 1 )( dup 1 - loop * )if/
>
Forth implementations sometimes have a =E2=80=9Crecurse=E2=80=9D word for t=
his
purpose. I prefer =E2=80=9Crecur=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D because=
it lets you say cute
things like:
def repl: read evaluate print loop
> I think there are lots of running implemetations of pure Joy somewhere in=
the internet, but the only ones i know about are Joy1 in scheme and C form=
John Cowan, njoy in OCaml from Christian Szegedy and Conca from Claude Ma=
rinier.
Do you want this to become the standard implementation of Joy? Joy
seems like the concatenative Scheme, in that it=E2=80=99s small and easy to
implement, so there are many incompatible implementations=E2=80=A6
> I don't know, is it a coincidence or did it just happen at the same time =
that Claude and i present the same idea within a few days.
That has a tendency to happen.
> The code is at sourceforge at Rabbit-vm.
You should check it into the repo on SourceForge so that it can be
browsed under =E2=80=9CCode=E2=80=9D instead of by downloading the tarball.=
:)
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<p>> I would like to use () instead of [].<br>
<br>
Syntax design is hard. The argument for [] is that they=E2=80=99re non-shif=
t<br>
keys (on US keyboards) and they free up parentheses for their more<br>
common meanings of grouping (mathematics) or comments (natural<br>
language). I use {} for code quotations in Kitten because they give<br>
you a syntax more resembling C, and that frees up [] for data<br>
quotations (vectors).<br>
<br>
> Factor, with its 224MB-installation seems a lot more than i can chew.<=
br>
<br>
I agree. :)<br>
<br>
> () (1 2 3) uncons (swons)dip<br>
> () (1 2 3) uncons swons^<br>
<br>
We talked about this briefly on the Concatenative Programming G+<br>
group[1], namely that higher-order functions are something like<br>
adverbs, and seem to work well when they look syntactically like<br>
inflections. You could make the combination of word+symbol invoke<br>
=E2=80=9C(word) symbol=E2=80=9D and avoid a lot of nesting without making =
=E2=80=9C^=E2=80=9D special.<br>
<br>
[1]: https://plus.google.com/103392068634106050064/posts/gEkDANFd7qp<br>
<br>
> (name)<br>
> `name<br>
><br>
> This is a small difference. The improvement is not in typing but in re=
ading: `name is most of the time a name, passed to a function.<br>
<br>
I read those differently:<br>
<br>
(name) =3D =E2=80=9Cpush a new quotation which calls =E2=80=98name=E2=80=99=
=E2=80=9D<br>
`name =3D =E2=80=9Cpush the word =E2=80=98name=E2=80=99 itself=E2=80=9D<br>
<br>
Of course, they can have the same implementation.<br>
<br>
> From time to time i run into a pattern like this:<br>
> fac-2 doesn't work! Because copy+paste didn't change the n=
ame fac-1 into fac-2.<br>
><br>
> fac-1: ( 0 =3D )( zap 1 )( dup 1 - fac-1 * )if*<br>
><br>
> fac-2: dup 0 =3D ( zap 1 )( dup 1 - fac-1 * )if/<br>
><br>
><br>
> In the following 'loop' is just a symbol, that is going to be =
replaced by the name of the currently defined word. This saves typing and i=
s an improvement on legibility.<br>
><br>
> fac-1: ( 0 =3D )( zap 1 )( dup 1 - loop * )if*<br>
><br>
> fac-2: dup 0 =3D ( zap 1 )( dup 1 - loop * )if/<br>
><br>
<br>
Forth implementations sometimes have a =E2=80=9Crecurse=E2=80=9D word for t=
his<br>
purpose. I prefer =E2=80=9Crecur=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D because=
it lets you say cute<br>
things like:<br>
<br>
def repl: read evaluate print loop<br>
<br>
> I think there are lots of running implemetations of pure Joy somewhere=
in the internet, but the only ones i know about are Joy1 in scheme and C f=
orm John Cowan, njoy in OCaml from Christian Szegedy and Conca from Claude=
Marinier.<br>
<br>
Do you want this to become the standard implementation of Joy? Joy<br>
seems like the concatenative Scheme, in that it=E2=80=99s small and easy to=
<br>
implement, so there are many incompatible implementations=E2=80=A6<br>
<br>
> I don't know, is it a coincidence or did it just happen at the sam=
e time that Claude and i present the same idea within a few days.<br>
<br>
That has a tendency to happen.<br>
<br>
> The code is at sourceforge at Rabbit-vm.<br>
<br>
You should check it into the repo on SourceForge so that it can be<br>
browsed under =E2=80=9CCode=E2=80=9D instead of by downloading the tarball.=
:)<br>
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