Re: Defining a library in one file

I think that improving the ability to write a simple script and run it is a
good thing. I also think that making it easier to deal with using libraries
/ modules is a good thing.

I have a couple of concerns here though ...

In "Replacing the LID file", you talk about the library vs module header.
If this is for scripting, then the name of library doesn't really matter,
as it is entirely transient, no?  This isn't really meant for creating a
permanent library or executable, is it? I don't really think it should be.
Libraries and executables are going to need additional metadata in the
future for packaging systems and future tools.

For libraries that are intended for re-use and re-distribution, I don't
think having a build file + source is that unreasonable. (The library file
... well, that's up for debate and I'd love to see that improved.) I can't
think of a language that encourages truly single-file libraries for general
use. Certainly not Python, Clojure, Haskell, Common Lisp, Scala, Java, etc,
etc.

You say that at least 10 repos within dylan-lang could be single-file
libraries. I'd like to understand that better. Which 10?

I think that dylan-compiler should also take a special command for this:

   dylan-compiler -script foo.dylan
   dylan-compiler -exec foo.dylan

That would indicate that it should build and run the thing.  With -script,
it could have additional useful behaviors:


   - Delete the build products afterwards.
   - Set the build configuration to use the dylan, common-dylan and other
   libraries that are part of the Open Dylan distribution rather than building
   everything from scratch as we do in a normal library / executable situation.

Having -exec would indicate that it should do a normal build in-situ and
not remove anything afterwards, but that it should execute the resulting
executable. Note that we don't currently have a command in dylan-compiler
for executing a build product as that's currently in dylan-environment
only. (There's a newly opened bug about this.)

Regarding replacing the library file ... I have a couple of concerns.

For a single file library or script, we can, right now, inline the define
library / module stuff into the main dylan file and that works without new
syntax / use of headers.  (That gets us down to 2 files, a LID and a Dylan
file for a small library / executable.)  This works today.

Should these new headers work everywhere? How about in a multi-file
project? Does anyone really have a good handle on actually implementing
these headers or would it end up derailing the implementation of the more
important portions of this? (I personally don't know that area of the code
well enough to dive in currently.)

There's been plenty of talk over the years about simplifying library and
module management for all use cases. I'm not sure that we should undertake
this directly here ... is this the sort of syntax / structure that we want
to live with going forward and to support more generally / broadly?

I'm just asking questions here and want to be convinced.  Perhaps it would
be better to split this into multiple DEPs, with a focus on running scripts
first and to let us gain experience with what the issues involved with that
are?

 - Bruce




On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Carl Gay <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Carl Gay <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi.  I would like to get feedback on a proposal for a way to define Dylan
>> libraries with a single file rather than the current minimum three files:
>> LID file, library file, main program file.  You can read it formatted<https://github.com/cgay/website/blob/single-file-library-dep/source/proposals/dep-0006.rst> and
>> reply here with your comments, or plain<https://github.com/dylan-lang/website/pull/40/files>and leave your comments directly in the document.  The latter requires a
>> github account.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> -Carl
>>
>>
> There is a new draft at a new location:
>
> http://opendylan.org/proposals/dep-0006.html
>
> Changes:
> * Added a Revision History link so you can see detailed changes.
> * Switched from multiple Use-Library/Module headers to single
> Use-Libraries/Modules.
> * Renamed Module-Exports header to Export-Names.
>
>
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