Re: [dylan] Mindy: Surface syntax

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Chicken Scheme has the (: ...) syntax as well, whereas Bigloo moves it more
into the definition with :: syntax. Personally, I like the Bigloo-style
better. As it means tools can process things in *one* place, but I'm fine
with either really, just tossing my =C2=A30.02 in.
On Nov 1, 2015 8:09 PM, "Bruce Mitchener" <[email protected]> wrote=
:

> As usual whenever Dylan gets much attention, the subject of the syntax
> comes up.
>
> As such, we're interested in entertaining a discussion about adding a new
> surface syntax to Mindy. This could be a pilot project for perhaps applyi=
ng
> it to Open Dylan in the future.
>
> Long ago, I had started some notes about various similar syntax options:
>
>
> https://github.com/waywardmonkeys/prefixy-dylan-notes/blob/master/source/=
index.rst
>
> It might be interesting to think a bit broader than this though and look
> at some other options:
>
>
>    - Something ML inspired? What might this look like?
>    - Something inspired by Pyret (http://www.pyret.org/)?
>    - ???
>
> One common complaint about prefix-dylan syntax (shared by Scott McKay a
> few hours ago on Twitter as well) is that it uses a lot of parentheses.
>
> One way to address that is to do what Goo did:
>
> (dm floor/ (real|<num> divisor|<num> =3D> (tup x|<int> rem|<num>))
>   ...)
>
>
> or like Mikel Evins did in Bard:
>
> (define (signature-more-specific? s1::TypeSignature s2::TypeSignature)
>   (if (eqv? s1 s2)
>       #t
>       (every subtype? s1:types s2:types)))
>
>
> Another way would be to take the approach of Typed Racket and move the
> type annotations out of the signature:
>
> (: flexible-length (-> (U String (Listof Any)) Integer))
> (define (flexible-length str-or-lst)
>   (if (string? str-or-lst)
>       (string-length str-or-lst)
>       (length str-or-lst)))
>
>
> As for an ML-like syntax, a very long time ago, there was an article on
> the semantics of Dylan that used an ML-like syntax:
>
> IsClass :: ClassName -> ClassList -> Boolean
> IsClass (cl:ClassName) ([]:ClassList) =3D False
> IsClass cl (c::cs) =3D
>    if cl =3D c.name then True else IsClass cl ...
>
>
> That article can be found here:
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/others/dylan/=
doc/semantic/0.html
>
> There's probably room to look at some of what Cecil did as well as
> Fortress.
>
> Discussion and thoughts welcome!
>
>  - Bruce
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackers mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.opendylan.org/mailman/listinfo/hackers
>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Chicken Scheme has the (: ...) syntax as well, whereas Biglo=
o moves it more into the definition with :: syntax. Personally, I like the =
Bigloo-style better. As it means tools can process things in *one* place, b=
ut I&#39;m fine with either really, just tossing my =C2=A30.02 in.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Nov 1, 2015 8:09 PM, &quot;Bruce Mitchener&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">bruce.mitchener@gmail.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">As usual whenever Dylan gets much attention, the subject of=
 the syntax comes up.<div><br></div><div>As such, we&#39;re interested in e=
ntertaining a discussion about adding a new surface syntax to Mindy. This c=
ould be a pilot project for perhaps applying it to Open Dylan in the future=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Long ago, I had started some notes about various=
 similar syntax options:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<a hre=
f=3D"https://github.com/waywardmonkeys/prefixy-dylan-notes/blob/master/sour=
ce/index.rst" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/waywardmonkeys/prefixy-d=
ylan-notes/blob/master/source/index.rst</a></div><div><br></div><div>It mig=
ht be interesting to think a bit broader than this though and look at some =
other options:</div><div><br></div><div><ul><li>Something ML inspired? What=
 might this look like?<br></li><li>Something inspired by Pyret (<a href=3D"=
http://www.pyret.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.pyret.org/</a>)?</li><l=
i>???</li></ul><div>One common complaint about prefix-dylan syntax (shared =
by Scott McKay a few hours ago on Twitter as well) is that it uses a lot of=
 parentheses.</div></div><div><br></div><div>One way to address that is to =
do what Goo did:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div>(dm floor/ (real|&lt;num&gt; divi=
sor|&lt;num&gt; =3D&gt; (tup x|&lt;int&gt; rem|&lt;num&gt;))</div></div><di=
v><div>=C2=A0 ...)</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>or like Mike=
l Evins did in Bard:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div>(define (signature-more-speci=
fic? s1::TypeSignature s2::TypeSignature)</div></div><div><div>=C2=A0 (if (=
eqv? s1 s2)</div></div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #t</div></div><div><d=
iv>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (every subtype? s1:types s2:types)))</div></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>Another way would be to take the approach of =
Typed Racket and move the type annotations out of the signature:</div><div>=
<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:=
0px"><div><div>(: flexible-length (-&gt; (U String (Listof Any)) Integer))<=
/div></div><div><div>(define (flexible-length str-or-lst)</div></div><div><=
div>=C2=A0 (if (string? str-or-lst)</div></div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 (string-length str-or-lst)</div></div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (l=
ength str-or-lst)))</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As for an M=
L-like syntax, a very long time ago, there was an article on the semantics =
of Dylan that used an ML-like syntax:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div>IsClass :: C=
lassName -&gt; ClassList -&gt; Boolean</div></div><div><div>IsClass (cl:Cla=
ssName) ([]:ClassList) =3D False</div></div><div><div>IsClass cl (c::cs) =
=3D</div></div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0if cl =3D <a href=3D"http://c.name" t=
arget=3D"_blank">c.name</a> then True else IsClass cl ... =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That article can be found h=
ere:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai=
/lang/others/dylan/doc/semantic/0.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cs.cm=
u.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/others/dylan/doc/semantic/0.html=
</a></div><div><br></div><div>There&#39;s probably room to look at some of =
what Cecil did as well as Fortress.</div><div><br></div><div>Discussion and=
 thoughts welcome!</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0- Bruce</div><div><br></d=
iv></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
hackers mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.opendylan.org/mailman/listinfo/hackers" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.opendylan.org/mailman/listinfo/hac=
kers</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>

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