Re: [friam] Classification of actor languages
"Mark S. Miller" <[email protected]> Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:54:17 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.e.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CABHxS9gR3oMEBcXTZYTTX8meoXBpWrDvMJcZegWzujZCKn0vyw@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============5839588878358241654== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba1efc12271855050f3aca0b --90e6ba1efc12271855050f3aca0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also, "cast" is not a term I am familiar from in the foundation of Actors. As used by Java and C#, it is specific to mostly-statically-typed languages. What would you mean in a language with no static notion of type? I note that Actors do not presume or preclude any static notion of type. Plasma, your first Actors language design, had no static types. And neither did Act-1, Act-2, or Act3. On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Mark S. Miller <[email protected]> wrote= : > It is not at all obvious to me what you even mean by these terms. Can you > define them in terms of, for example, the Hewitt-Baker Actor laws, the > Clinger Actor semantics, or something equally foundational? > > As for conventional use of these terms, they mean many subtly different > things in different contexts, so it is again not obvious precisely what y= ou > even intend to mean. For example, the main context I would expect to borr= ow > from, Java and C#, you explicitly say do not mean the same thing as you b= y > "interface". > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Carl Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> >> >> It is obvious that an Actor needs to be able to implement multiple >> interfaces. >> >> However, it is important to avoid mistakes that were made in Java and C#= . >> >> For example, >> >> =C2=B7 It must be possible to have the **same** message receiver >> signature in >> >> two different interfaces implemented by the same Actor. >> >> =C2=B7 It must not be possible **externally** to cast an address f= or >> one interface >> >> to an address for another interface. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Carl >> >> >> >> *From:* friam-/[email protected] [mailto:friam-/[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 12:38 >> *To:* friam >> >> *Cc:* Discussion of E and other capability languages >> *Subject:* Re: [friam] Classification of actor languages >> >> >> >> Carl, what do you mean by "interface" here? It doesn't sound like any >> foundational concept I know of from my long study of Actors. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Carl Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote= : >> >> Hi Tom, >> >> >> >> It should **not** be the case that having an address for >> >> an interface to an Actor automatically enables sending messages >> >> to other interfaces of the Actor. The only way to obtain >> >> addresses for other interfaces is for them to be communicated >> >> in messages by the Actor. >> >> >> >> In this respect, Java and C# are **not** proper Actor programming >> languages >> >> because it is possible to **externally** cast from one interface of an >> Actor to another :-( >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Carl >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* friam-/[email protected] [mailto:friam-/[email protected]] *On >> Behalf Of *Tom Van Cutsem >> *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 12:24 >> *To:* friam-/[email protected] >> *Cc:* Discussion of E and other capability languages >> *Subject:* Re: [friam] Classification of actor languages >> >> >> >> Hi Carl, >> >> >> >> 2015-02-14 1:19 GMT+01:00 Carl Hewitt <[email protected]>: >> >> Of course, an Actor can implement multiple interfaces. >> >> >> >> I am wondering how a =E2=80=9Cfacet=E2=80=9D relates to an interface. >> >> >> >> Indeed, an actor can implement multiple interfaces, but this typically >> means that anyone having a reference to the actor can send any message f= rom >> the union of all interface methods. By contrast, in a vat with multiple >> facets, a reference to a facet provides access to only the methods expos= ed >> by that facet. Thus, facets make it easier to restrict authority. >> >> >> >> Of course, one could encode facets in a pure actor model, by passing a >> token designating the facet as part of the message. The actor can be >> programmed to dispatch the message to an internal object only if the tok= en >> matches. But this would be an encoding of the vat model in a pure actor >> model. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tom >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "friam" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to friam+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> To post to this group, send email to friam-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/friam. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "friam" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to friam+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> To post to this group, send email to friam-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/friam. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Cheers, >> --MarkM >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "friam" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to friam+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> To post to this group, send email to friam-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/friam. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "friam" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to friam+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> To post to this group, send email to friam-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/[email protected] >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/friam. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Cheers, > --MarkM > --=20 Cheers, --MarkM --90e6ba1efc12271855050f3aca0b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Also, "cast" is not a term I am familiar from in= the foundation of Actors. As used by Java and C#, it is specific to mostly= -statically-typed languages. What would you mean in a language with no stat= ic notion of type?<div><br></div><div>I note that Actors do not presume or = preclude any static notion of type. Plasma, your first Actors language desi= gn, had no static types. And neither did Act-1, Act-2, or Act3.</div><div><= br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"= gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Mark S. Miller <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">erights@go= ogle.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir= =3D"ltr">It is not at all obvious to me what you even mean by these terms. = Can you define them in terms of, for example, the Hewitt-Baker Actor laws, = the Clinger Actor semantics, or something equally foundational?<div><br></d= iv><div>As for conventional use of these terms, they mean many subtly diffe= rent things in different contexts, so it is again not obvious precisely wha= t you even intend to mean. For example, the main context I would expect to = borrow from, Java and C#, you explicitly say do not mean the same thing as = you by "interface".</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><= /div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div><div class=3D"h5"= ><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Carl Hewi= tt <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_b= lank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai= l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left= :1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">Hi Mark,<u></u><u></u></sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">It is obvious that an Acto= r needs to be able to implement multiple interfaces.<u></u><u></u></span></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">However, it is important t= o avoid mistakes that were made in Java and C#.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">For example,<u></u><u></u>= </span></p> <p><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><= span>=C2=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu= ot;Microsoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">It must be possible t= o have the *<b>same</b>* message receiver signature in <u></u><u></u></span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif&q= uot;,sans-serif;color:black">two different interfaces implemented by the sa= me Actor.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><= span>=C2=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu= ot;Microsoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">It must not be possib= le *<b>externally</b>* to cast an address for one interface<u></u><u></u></= span></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif&q= uot;,sans-serif;color:black">to an address for another interface.<u></u><u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></spa= n></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black">Carl<u></u><u></u></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Mi= crosoft Sans Serif",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-si= ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span= style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a = href=3D"mailto:friam-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">friam@googlegroups= .com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:friam-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank= ">friam-/[email protected]</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 16, 2015 12:38<br> <b>To:</b> friam</span></p><div><div><br> <b>Cc:</b> Discussion of E and other capability languages<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [friam] Classification of actor languages<u></u><u></u>= </div></div><p></p><div><div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Carl, what do you mean by= "interface" here? It doesn't sound like any foundational con= cept I know of from my long study of Actors.<u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 1= 2:34 PM, Carl Hewitt <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_b= lank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i= n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">Hi Tom,</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">It should *<b>not</b>* be the case that having an= address for </span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">an interface to an Actor automatically enables se= nding messages</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">to other interfaces of the Actor. The only way to= obtain</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">addresses for other interfaces is for them to be = communicated</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">in messages by the Actor.</span><u></u><u></u></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">In this respect, Java and C# are *<b>not</b>* pro= per Actor programming languages</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">because it is possible to *<b>externally</b>* cas= t from one interface of an Actor to another :-(</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">Carl</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft Sans Serif"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-ser= if">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib= ri",sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:friam-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">friam@googlegro= ups.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:friam-/[email protected]" target=3D"_bl= ank">friam-/[email protected]</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Van Cutsem<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 16, 2015 12:24<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:friam-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">fria= [email protected]</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> Discussion of E and other capability languages<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [friam] Classification of actor languages</span><u></u>= <u></u></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> Hi Carl,<u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> 2015-02-14 1:19 GMT+01:00 Carl Hewitt <<a href=3D"mailto:hewitt@irobust.= org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i= n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-= bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;= color:#1f497d">Of course, an Actor can implement multiple interfaces.</span= ><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;= color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;= color:#1f497d">I am wondering how a =E2=80=9Cfacet=E2=80=9D relates to an i= nterface.</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> Indeed, an actor can implement multiple interfaces, but this typically mean= s that anyone having a reference to the actor can send any message from the= union of all interface methods. By contrast, in a vat with multiple facets= , a reference to a facet provides access to only the methods exposed by that facet. Thus, facets make it eas= ier to restrict authority.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> Of course, one could encode facets in a pure actor model, by passing a toke= n designating the facet as part of the message. The actor can be programmed= to dispatch the message to an internal object only if the token matches. B= ut this would be an encoding of the vat model in a pure actor model.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> Tom<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> -- <br> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;friam" group.<br> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:friam+unsubscribe-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">fri= am+unsubscribe-/[email protected]</a>.<br> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= om" target=3D"_blank"> friam-/[email protected]</a>.<br> Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/friam" target= =3D"_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/friam</a>.<br> For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ= et=3D"_blank"> https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <br> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;friam" group.<br> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:friam+unsubscribe-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">fri= am+unsubscribe-/[email protected]</a>.<br> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= om" target=3D"_blank"> friam-/[email protected]</a>.<br> Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/friam" target= =3D"_blank"> http://groups.google.com/group/friam</a>.<br> For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ= et=3D"_blank"> https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> <br clear=3D"all"> <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --MarkM<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <br> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;friam" group.<br> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:friam+unsubscribe-/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">fri= am+unsubscribe-/[email protected]</a>.<br> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= om" target=3D"_blank">friam-/[email protected]</a>.<br> Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/friam" target= =3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/friam</a>.<br> For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<u></u><u></u></p> </div></div></div> </div><div><div> <p></p> -- <br> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;friam" group.<br> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:friam+unsubscribe-/[email protected]" target=3D"_bl= ank">friam+unsubscribe-/[email protected]</a>.<br> To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= om" target=3D"_blank">friam-/[email protected]</a>.<br> Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/friam" target= =3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/friam</a>.<br> For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></div><= /div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br><div>=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 Cheers,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --MarkM</div> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class= =3D"gmail_signature">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --MarkM</div> </div> --90e6ba1efc12271855050f3aca0b-- --===============5839588878358241654== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ e-lang mailing list [email protected] http://www.eros-os.org/mailman/listinfo/e-lang --===============5839588878358241654==--