Re: [Erlang Forums] [Erlang/OTP Proposals/Proposals: RFC] Re-visiting EEP-0055
Sean Hinde <[email protected]> Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:25:08 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.erlang.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--Apple-Mail=_481D5607-B091-4A75-9704-BE25A56646E8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Big no from me as well. I thought we had done this discussion to death. Yes, Erlang has a small unfortunate issue. But a face with a wart on its = chin is not improved by a much bigger one on the end of its nose! /Sean > On 25 Apr 2022, at 08:13, Michael Malter <[email protected]> wrote: >=20 > I said it for years. Elixir is cutting the branch it is sitting on. >=20 > Oh well, we will be fine for quite a few years. >=20 > I haven't read the whole thing, it is quite difficult to digest but I = am not sure anyone mentioned that sigils are hard to read. It's bad in = ruby, horrible in perl. I am not sure why we are taking ideas from these = languages. I mean, I actually enjoy writing ruby but just fail to see = where it stands in a prology context. >=20 >=20 > Little funny story on the side. I go to a local erlang meetup, the = topic of the day is "Discovering erlang" or something similar. An = organizer litteraly shouted on me just for mentionning erlang. The whole = thing revolved around selling elixir products. I'll let you imagine the = atmosphere in the room, full of begginers. One (courageous ? ) guy left = on the spot. > =20 > We all wished the coexistence would be peaceful and productive. It = certainly was for the most part. But let's face it we are more and more = dealing with monkey crusaders. Consultants also. If I have an economic = incentive to tell you that making a pabx in fortran is great, I'll just = tell you that.=20 >=20 > This proposal reeks of "Erlang does not look like what I am used to, = so let's make it user friendly". >=20 > Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 =C3=A0 07:41, Eric Pailleau = <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> a =C3=A9crit = : > Yes, this 'pinning operator' will just pin erlang in the extinct = species museum. >=20 > Envoy=C3=A9 depuis mon mobile >=20 >=20 > ---- zxq9 a =C3=A9crit ---- >=20 > =46rom the EEP, which is about "pinning operators" (will the nonsense >=20 > cease?): >=20 > > In Erlang, they would be optional >=20 >=20 >=20 > So why would you even want this? The entire idea is stupid, *implies* = a >=20 > break with the basic rules already built into the language, and = appears >=20 > to be nothing more than a way to roadmap the destruction of Erlang = over >=20 > time with gee-whiz glyphy syntax of the sort which Erlang has been = thus >=20 > far generally free. >=20 >=20 >=20 > That's a big "NO" from me on this EEP, but I imagine anyone could have >=20 > already guessed that. Thanks for the heads up. I don't expect sanity = to >=20 > prevail over time -- it is just the trend of the times -- but it was >=20 > interesting to at least see this mentioned to those of us still >=20 > subscribed to the bad dirty old ML. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -Craig >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 2022/04/21 21:32, Leonard Boyce wrote: >=20 > > I'm copying the Erlang Questions ML with this post since there was >=20 > > significant and heated discussion regarding this EEP and not all ML >=20 > > subscribers have joined the forum. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 10:20 PM Bryan Paxton via Erlang Forums >=20 > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >=20 > >> >=20 > >> starbelly EEF Board >=20 > >> April 21 >=20 > >> >=20 > >> EEP-0055 = (https://github.com/erlang/eep/blob/master/eeps/eep-0055.md = <https://github.com/erlang/eep/blob/master/eeps/eep-0055.md>) was = submitted on >=20 > >> 21-Dec-2020. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> An accompanying implementation = (https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951 = <https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951>) was submitted in which a lot = of conversation ensued. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> It was decided that the EEP would not be set for inclusion in = OTP-24, per the time table at that juncture and that it would be = revisited prior to OTP-25. OTP-25 is now at a point where this is not = possible. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> That said, I wanted to start a topic here about the EEP and gun for = inclusion in OTP-26. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> I would point to @kennethL=E2=80=99s last comment = (https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951#issuecomment-770878570 = <https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951#issuecomment-770878570>) on the = PR as a starting point for discussion. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> I suppose my overarching question here is : Is this still on the = table? And if so, what are the road blocks? Kenneth pointed out some = possible roadblacks that needed investigation, but it=E2=80=99s not = clear to me what happened after that. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> Of course, since I=E2=80=99m raising this topic, I=E2=80=99m = obviously in favor of the operator I=E2=80=99d also be happy to work to = drive it forward. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> ________________________________ >=20 > >> >=20 > >> Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> You are receiving this because you enabled mailing list mode. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> To unsubscribe from these emails, click here. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> >=20 --Apple-Mail=_481D5607-B091-4A75-9704-BE25A56646E8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Big = no from me as well. I thought we had done this discussion to death.<div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Yes, Erlang has a small = unfortunate issue. But a face with a wart on its chin is not improved by = a much bigger one on the end of its nose!</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">/Sean<br class=3D""><div><br = class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 25 = Apr 2022, at 08:13, Michael Malter <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" class=3D"">[email protected]</a>>= wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div = dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I said it for = years. Elixir is cutting the branch it is sitting on.</div><div = dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" = class=3D"">Oh well, we will be fine for quite a few years.</div><div = dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" = class=3D"">I haven't read the whole thing, it is quite difficult to = digest but I am not sure anyone mentioned that sigils are hard to read. = It's bad in ruby, horrible in perl. I am not sure why we are taking = ideas from these languages. I mean, I actually enjoy writing ruby but = just fail to see where it stands in a prology context.</div><div = dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Little = funny story on the side. I go to a local erlang meetup, the topic of the = day is "Discovering erlang" or something similar. An organizer litteraly = shouted on me just for mentionning erlang. The whole thing revolved = around selling elixir products. I'll let you imagine the atmosphere in = the room, full of begginers. One (courageous ? ) guy left on the = spot.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""> </div><div dir=3D"auto" = class=3D"">We all wished the coexistence would be peaceful and = productive. It certainly was for the most part. But let's face it we are = more and more dealing with monkey crusaders. Consultants also. If I have = an economic incentive to tell you that making a pabx in fortran is = great, I'll just tell you that. </div><div dir=3D"auto" = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">This = proposal reeks of "Erlang does not look like what I am used to, so let's = make it user friendly".</div></div><br class=3D""><div = class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Le lun. 25 = avr. 2022 =C3=A0 07:41, Eric Pailleau <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a>> a =C3=A9crit :<br = class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 = .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Yes, this = 'pinning operator' will just pin erlang in the extinct species = museum.</div> <br class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" = class=3D"">Envoy=C3=A9 depuis mon mobile </div><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">---- zxq9 a =C3=A9crit ----<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> = =46rom the EEP, which is about "pinning operators" (will the nonsense<br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">cease?):<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> > In = Erlang, they would be optional<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">So why would you even want this? The entire = idea is stupid, *implies* a<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">break with the = basic rules already built into the language, and appears<br class=3D""><br= class=3D"">to be nothing more than a way to roadmap the destruction of = Erlang over<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">time with gee-whiz glyphy = syntax of the sort which Erlang has been thus<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">far generally free.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">That's a big "NO" from me on this EEP, but I = imagine anyone could have<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">already guessed = that. Thanks for the heads up. I don't expect sanity to<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">prevail over time -- it is just the trend of the times -- but = it was<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">interesting to at least see this = mentioned to those of us still<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">subscribed = to the bad dirty old ML.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">-Craig<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">On 2022/04/21 21:32, Leonard Boyce wrote:<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">> I'm copying the Erlang Questions ML with this post since = there was<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> significant and heated = discussion regarding this EEP and not all ML<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">> subscribers have joined the forum.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">> <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 = at 10:20 PM Bryan Paxton via Erlang Forums<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">> <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer" = class=3D"">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> starbelly EEF = Board<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> April 21<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> EEP-0055 (<a = href=3D"https://github.com/erlang/eep/blob/master/eeps/eep-0055.md" = target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer" = class=3D"">https://github.com/erlang/eep/blob/master/eeps/eep-0055.md</a>)= was submitted on<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> 21-Dec-2020.<br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> = An accompanying implementation (<a = href=3D"https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951" target=3D"_blank" = rel=3D"noreferrer" class=3D"">https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951</a>)= was submitted in which a lot of conversation ensued.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> It was decided = that the EEP would not be set for inclusion in OTP-24, per the time = table at that juncture and that it would be revisited prior to OTP-25. = OTP-25 is now at a point where this is not possible.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> That said, I = wanted to start a topic here about the EEP and gun for inclusion in = OTP-26.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>> I would point to @kennethL=E2=80=99s last comment = (<a = href=3D"https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951#issuecomment-770878570" = target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer" = class=3D"">https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/2951#issuecomment-770878570<= /a>) on the PR as a starting point for discussion.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> I suppose my = overarching question here is : Is this still on the table? And if so, = what are the road blocks? Kenneth pointed out some possible roadblacks = that needed investigation, but it=E2=80=99s not clear to me what = happened after that.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> Of course, since I=E2=80=99m raising = this topic, I=E2=80=99m obviously in favor of the operator I=E2=80=99d = also be happy to work to drive it forward.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> = ________________________________<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">>> Visit Topic or reply to this email to = respond.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>> You are receiving this because you enabled mailing = list mode.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>> To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.<br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">>><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote></div> </div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_481D5607-B091-4A75-9704-BE25A56646E8--