Re: Collateral Damage

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I disagree that there=E2=80=99s no bashing. Look through the most recent th=
read and
the previous thread about this EEP and you=E2=80=99ll see people expressing=
 some
pretty rank opinions. Additionally, saying "we don=E2=80=99t want Erlang to=
 become
Elixir" is essentially a content-free statement. Someone took the time to
write up an EEP *complete with examples*, and it gets rejected by the
community not on its merits (or lack thereof), but simply because "ew,
looks too much like Elixir, we=E2=80=99re screwing up the language if we do=
 this".
Paraphrased, but not excessively so.

I=E2=80=99m a development manager in an Elixir shop (it=E2=80=99s not the o=
nly language we
use). We=E2=80=99re clear that we develop with Elixir, even though we would
absolutely interview someone with an Erlang background. And as a
development manager, I can say that we would absolutely prefer most of our
code to be in Elixir, but would have little problem implementing part of
the code in Erlang, if it made sense to do so. (The beauty of the Elixir
tooling is that doing that is trivial.)

-a

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 11:26 AM Michael Malter <[email protected]> wrote=
:

> Come on, there is no bashing. Most of us prefer Erlang and don't want
> Erlang to become Elixir, that is all.
>
> That simple view seems very difficult to accept for some Elixir folks.
> That's fine, we won't cry.
>
> The linguistic metaphor is useful there. It's hard for non english
> language to survive nowadays. There is a network effect, universal langua=
ge
> tend to develop uniformity.
>
> Aside from that, there might be some saltiness. The following happened to
> me multiple times:
> - I apply to a job with an erlang resume
> - people are impressed "wow, the guy does Erlang"
> - turns out "yeah it's very cool that you know Erlang well but do it in
> Elixir anyway". It even happens on fresh projects.
> - Me: "Why. I'll be way faster in Erlang, that is what I know."
> -????
> - Frustration
>
> Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 =C3=A0 16:29, Onorio Catenacci <
> [email protected]> a =C3=A9crit :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> If you don't like the proposal, that's your privilege.  I see no reason
>> to bash on Elixir due to your dislike of this particular proposal though=
.
>> I do believe (and I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong) that Elixir
>> has had a few positive contributions to Erlang and, of course, Elixir
>> couldn't exist without Erlang.  Erlang and Elixir can both be great
>> languages on the BEAM and can both prosper without either of them
>> bad-mouthing the other.
>>
>> I don't hear people running down LFE or Gleam--but I don't think either
>> of those languages has achieved the success that Elixir has either so I
>> guess that makes some sense.
>>
>> I can certainly understand the passion that people feel about Erlang and
>> I can certainly understand being disappointed in seeing a great language
>> sort of bypassed by something that some could consider a shiny-new-objec=
t
>> of a language but I don't think that's a fair assessment.
>>
>> I don't see Erlang vs. Elixir as a zero-sum game and I think it's a pity
>> that so many people who are contributing a lot of otherwise good,
>> insightful commentary seem to feel that's the situation. I really think
>> there's room for both to grow and thrive.  And thank goodness people are
>> starting to recognize the importance of having a good language/RT to
>> building scalable systems.
>>
>> --
>> Onorio
>>
>>
>>

--=20
Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 [email protected] =E2=80=A2 [email protected]=
a
http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I disagree that there=E2=80=99s no bashing. Look through t=
he most recent thread and the previous thread about this EEP and you=E2=80=
=99ll see people expressing some pretty rank opinions. Additionally, saying=
 &quot;we don=E2=80=99t want Erlang to become Elixir&quot; is essentially a=
 content-free statement. Someone took the time to write up an EEP <i>comple=
te with examples</i>, and it gets rejected by the community not on its meri=
ts (or lack thereof), but simply because &quot;ew, looks too much like Elix=
ir, we=E2=80=99re screwing up the language if we do this&quot;. Paraphrased=
, but not excessively so.<div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m a development mana=
ger in an Elixir shop (it=E2=80=99s not the only language we use). We=E2=80=
=99re clear that we develop with Elixir, even though we would absolutely in=
terview someone with an Erlang background. And as a development manager, I =
can say that we would absolutely prefer most of our code to be in Elixir, b=
ut would have little problem implementing part of the code in Erlang, if it=
 made sense to do so. (The beauty of the Elixir tooling is that doing that =
is trivial.)<br></div><div><br></div><div>-a</div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 1=
1:26 AM Michael Malter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">airlangue=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;=
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Come on, there is no bashing. Most of us prefe=
r Erlang and don&#39;t want Erlang to become Elixir, that is all.</span><di=
v dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto" style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">That simple view seems very difficult to accept for s=
ome Elixir folks. That&#39;s fine, we won&#39;t cry.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
 style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:=
12.8px">The linguistic metaphor is useful there. It&#39;s hard for non engl=
ish language to survive nowadays. There is a network effect, universal lang=
uage tend to develop uniformity.</div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:=
12.8px"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Aside from t=
hat, there might be some saltiness. The following happened to me multiple t=
imes:</div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">- I apply to a job =
with an erlang resume</div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">- p=
eople are impressed &quot;wow, the guy does Erlang&quot;</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">- turns out &quot;yeah it&#39;s very cool t=
hat you know Erlang well but do it in Elixir anyway&quot;. It even happens =
on fresh projects.</div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">- Me: =
&quot;Why. I&#39;ll be way faster in Erlang, that is what I know.&quot;</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">-????</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
 style=3D"font-size:12.8px">- Frustration</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 =C3=A0 =
16:29, Onorio Catenacci &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></di=
v>If you don&#39;t like the proposal, that&#39;s your privilege.=C2=A0 I se=
e no reason to bash on Elixir due to your dislike of this particular propos=
al though.=C2=A0 I do believe (and I&#39;m sure I will be corrected if I&#3=
9;m wrong) that Elixir has had a few positive contributions to Erlang and, =
of course, Elixir couldn&#39;t exist without Erlang.=C2=A0 Erlang and Elixi=
r can both be great languages on the BEAM and can both prosper without eith=
er of them bad-mouthing the other.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I don&#3=
9;t hear people running down LFE=C2=A0or Gleam--but I don&#39;t think eithe=
r of those languages has achieved the success that Elixir has either so I g=
uess that makes some sense.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I can cert=
ainly understand the passion that people feel about Erlang and I can certai=
nly understand being disappointed in seeing a great language sort of bypass=
ed by something that some could consider a shiny-new-object of a language b=
ut I don&#39;t think that&#39;s a fair assessment.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I don&#39;t see Erlang vs. Elixir as a zero-sum game and I thi=
nk it&#39;s a pity that so many people who are contributing a lot of otherw=
ise good, insightful=C2=A0commentary seem to feel that&#39;s the situation.=
 I really think there&#39;s room for both to grow and thrive.=C2=A0 And tha=
nk goodness people are starting to recognize the importance of having a goo=
d language/RT to building scalable systems.</div><div><br></div>-- <br><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>Onorio</div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature">Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"mailto:halos=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> =E2=80=A2 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a><br><a href=3D"http://www.halostatue.ca/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ha=
lostatue.ca/</a> =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/halostatue" target=
=3D"_blank">http://twitter.com/halostatue</a></div>

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