Re: [Erlang Forums] [Erlang/OTP Proposals/Proposals: RFC] Re-visiting EEP-0055

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Well I would rather let Joe rest in peace but the reference is probably
helpful there.

Erlang is simple. I mean, that's how Joe saw it. He expressed it multiple
times.

Do you remember the time when that was the Java motto ? Look at Java now.

Is it so hard to understand what we are saying ? For once it's pretty clear
and without many diverging opinions.

- it's not sufficiently useful to warrant another language features (you
know, less is more)
- it's yet another sigil and we hate them.

Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 =C3=A0 17:14, Austin Ziegler <[email protected]> a
=C3=A9crit :

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 10:58 AM Stanislav Ledenev <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> One question - why? Just because we can?
>> Erlang is doomed, Sorry Joe, we f**d things up.
>>
>
> I really can=E2=80=99t help but laugh at over the top reactions like this=
 and
> those who can=E2=80=99t help but bash Elixir because they don=E2=80=99t l=
ike the syntax.
>
> What if this syntax (or some other syntax) helps the compiler generate
> better (safer, faster, *whatever*) code? How would anyone know unless it
> gets tried? Why would anyone want to try it when they know that a certain
> vocal subset of the community are going to be pitching embarrassing fits
> over it?
>
> If this is introduced in OTP 26, then stop upgrading. Seriously. Stay on
> OTP 25 or before. But seriously, stop acting like children about this and
> saying that things are fucked up (because they=E2=80=99re not; you just d=
on=E2=80=99t like
> this because you don=E2=80=99t like it). The only *real* objection that I=
=E2=80=99ve seen
> that makes sense to me is from Lo=C3=AFc, which is that it might be bette=
r to
> enable *annotations*, even if the only annotation initially available is
> for pinning. (My personal feeling on the annotation concept is that `^pin
> Variable` doesn=E2=80=99t feel right to me, but maybe `^pin:Variable` or
> `^pin{Variable}` or `^{pin}Variable` or something else, although more
> sigil-y, would be clearer.
>
> I mostly use Elixir, but often read Erlang codebases. On the Elixir core
> mailing list, there are frequent redirects to approach something as a
> possible PR to Erlang/OTP because it=E2=80=99s something that should bene=
fit all
> BEAM languages.
>
> Telemetry started as an Elixir library, but was quickly changed to a pure
> Erlang approach because it makes more sense to be something that all BEAM
> languages can use.
>
> Elixir has =E2=80=94 and I suspect both LFE and Gleam both have =E2=80=94=
 *enhanced *the
> BEAM through wider exposure, code contributions, and other contributions.
> If you can=E2=80=99t argue a feature request like in this EEP on its meri=
ts (or
> lack thereof) without trying to bash Elixir, then maybe you don=E2=80=99t=
 actually
> have an argument, but an emotional outburst, and should just *discard* yo=
ur
> rant after writing it.
>
> -a
> --
> Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 [email protected] =E2=80=A2 austin@halostatue=
.ca
> http://www.halostatue.ca/ =E2=80=A2 http://twitter.com/halostatue
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Well I would rather let Joe rest in peace but the referen=
ce is probably helpful there.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
Erlang is simple. I mean, that&#39;s how Joe saw it. He expressed it multip=
le times.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Do you remembe=
r the time when that was the Java motto ? Look at Java now.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Is it so hard to understand what we a=
re saying ? For once it&#39;s pretty clear and without many diverging opini=
ons.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- it&#39;s not suff=
iciently useful to warrant another language features (you know, less is mor=
e)</div><div dir=3D"auto">- it&#39;s yet another sigil and we hate them.=C2=
=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 =C3=A0 17:14, Austin Ziegler &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 10:58 AM Stanislav Ledenev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:s=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div>One question - why? Just because we can?</div><div>Erlang =
is doomed, Sorry Joe, we f**d things up.</div></div></blockquote><div>=C2=
=A0</div></div>I really can=E2=80=99t help but laugh at over the top reacti=
ons like this and those who can=E2=80=99t help but bash Elixir because=C2=
=A0they don=E2=80=99t like the syntax.<div><br></div><div>What if this synt=
ax (or some other syntax) helps the compiler generate better (safer, faster=
, <i>whatever</i>) code? How would anyone know unless it gets tried? Why wo=
uld anyone want to try it when they know that a certain vocal subset of the=
 community are going to be pitching embarrassing fits over it?</div><div><b=
r></div><div>If this is introduced in OTP 26, then stop upgrading. Seriousl=
y. Stay on OTP 25 or before. But seriously, stop acting like children about=
 this and saying that things are fucked up (because they=E2=80=99re not; yo=
u just don=E2=80=99t like this because you don=E2=80=99t like it). The only=
 <i>real</i>=C2=A0objection that I=E2=80=99ve seen that makes sense to me i=
s from Lo=C3=AFc, which is that it might be better to enable <i>annotations=
</i>, even if the only annotation initially available is for pinning. (My p=
ersonal feeling on the annotation concept is that `^pin Variable` doesn=E2=
=80=99t feel right to me, but maybe `^pin:Variable` or `^pin{Variable}` or =
`^{pin}Variable` or something else, although more sigil-y, would be clearer=
.</div><div><br></div><div>I mostly use Elixir, but often read Erlang codeb=
ases. On the Elixir core mailing list, there are frequent redirects to appr=
oach something as a possible PR to Erlang/OTP because it=E2=80=99s somethin=
g that should benefit all BEAM languages.</div><div><br></div><div>Telemetr=
y started as an Elixir library, but was quickly changed to a pure Erlang ap=
proach because it makes more sense to be something that all BEAM languages =
can use.</div><div><br></div><div>Elixir has =E2=80=94 and I suspect both L=
FE and Gleam both have =E2=80=94 <i>enhanced </i>the BEAM through wider exp=
osure, code contributions, and other contributions. If you can=E2=80=99t ar=
gue a feature request like in this EEP on its merits (or lack thereof) with=
out trying to bash Elixir, then maybe you don=E2=80=99t actually have an ar=
gument, but an emotional outburst, and should just <i>discard</i>=C2=A0your=
 rant after writing it.<br><div><div><div><br></div><div>-a<br>-- <br><div =
dir=3D"ltr">Austin Ziegler =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a> =E2=80=A2 <=
a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>[email protected]</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.halostatue.ca/" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.halostatue.ca/</a> =E2=80=A2 <a h=
ref=3D"http://twitter.com/halostatue" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
http://twitter.com/halostatue</a></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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