Re: objects and forth

--- On Mon, 1/26/09, David J. Goehrig <[email protected]> wrote:

> At the heart of nearly every ML dialect is a forth
> implementation screaming for air too!  (SML NJ is a perfect
> example, its dictionary would make any Forth programmer feel
> right at home).
>=20
> So while the views of the forth community may be more or
> less the same as they were years ago, the other communities,
> that are actively struggling with simplicity, are starting
> to think more and more like forth programmers.  At the
> current rate of "progress", most programmers on
> the planet will have no concept how their programs work, and
> the few who do will grok forth.

The main goal of OOD is ignorance(they call "encapsulation")
OOD doesn't like 'inheritance', the problem is stated as follows: "Because =
inheritance exposes a subclass to details of its parent's implementation, i=
t's often said that 'inheritance breaks encapsulation'".=20

It is the whole hide it in a black box and it will just magicaly work idea.

To quote Good Ideas, through the Looking Glass:
"5.6. Wizards We have discussed the great leaps forward in parsing technolo=
gy originating in the 1960s. The results are ever-present since those years=
. Hardly anybody now constructs a parser by hand. Instead, one buys a parse=
r generator and feeds it the desired syntax. This brings us to the topic of=
 automatic tools, now being called wizards. The idea is that they are to be=
 considered as black boxes, and that the user would not have to understand =
their innards, as they were optimally designed and laid out by experts. The=
 idea is that they automate simple routine tasks, relieving computer users =
from bothering about them. Wizards supposedly help you =E2=80=93 and this i=
s the key =E2=80=93 without your asking, as a faithful, devoted servant.=20
...
If at least they could easily be deactivated, but typically they are obstin=
ate and immortal like devils. So much for clever software for dummies: a ba=
d idea!

And you are surprized that they all idiots teaching others how to be idiots=
?

> Further more, if you look at what the PEG people have been
> working on, with their parsing executable grammars, as a
> forth programmer you'll see how a bunch of object people
> go about implementing Forth.  It is really quite fun to
> watch them struggle with concepts that would be easy if they
> simply adopted a directly manipulable return stack.

And break encapsulation! Are you mad? :P


> My personal thoughts on OO is that it is a good model for
> describing interfaces between pieces of software that reside
> in separate process spaces. =20

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=3D9E06EFD8103EE73BBC4E51DFB6=
678382669FDE

Of course the ones pushing for it know that wants are bad.  since you don't=
 give a damn I'll just tell you to read
Henry George's Progress and Poverty.
http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm



But as Edmund Burke, I think it was, said, "All that is required for evil t=
o prevail is for good men to help it."

I'm sure you (never) heard the tale: "In the early days of The Pennsylvania=
 Gazette a contribution was brought into the office with the request that F=
ranklin publish it... Franklin asked that the piece should be left to the f=
ollowing day, when he would decide about printing it. The person returned a=
t the time appointed, and received from Franklin this communication: 'I hav=
e perused your piece and found it to be scurrilous and defamatory. To deter=
mine whether I should publish it or not, I went home in the evening, purcha=
sed a twopenny loaf at the baker's, and with water from the pump made my su=
pper; I then wrapped myself up in my great-coat, and laid down on the floor=
 and slept till morning, when, on another load and a mug of water, I made m=
y breakfast. From this regiment I feel no inconvenience whatever. Finding I=
 can live in this manner, I have formed a determination never to prostitute=
 my press to the purposes of corruption, and abuse of this kind, for
 the sake of gaining a more comfortable subsistence."
=0A=0A=0A