Re: GForth for Windows

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From: Bernd Paysan <[email protected]>
Cc: gforth-mXXj517/[email protected], anton-8NJIiSa5LzB3ZGU3T6kWFyEcasqEdqbRs2V0tQ3P5b8@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: GForth for Windows
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 01:22:25 +0100
Message-ID: <2297557.gjxqYA5nGV@liubei>
In-Reply-To: <Zc0xBiqSUG0RDf7h-eMTcDWn+JWX/RkxMZTRrOJdqbFPxfnh/@public.gmane.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0

Am Mittwoch, 14. Februar 2024, 22:30:46 CET schrieb Anton Ertl:
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 09:01:39PM +0300, =EF=BF=BD?=D0=BD=D0=B4=EF=BF=BD=
?=D0=B5=D0=B9 =EF=BF=BD?=D0=B8=EF=BF=BD?=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B5=D0=B2 wrote:
> > Hi!
> >=20
> > Is it planned to develop a version of gforth for Windows?
>=20
> Yes.

In the past, I did the Windows/Cygwin port.  I have no plans, motivation, a=
nd=20
time to do any more work on that port, I have much better things to do.  I=
=20
don't see anybody else volunteering for that task, either.

> > Following the link "Bleeding Edge snapshot" on https://gforth.org/ I see
> > that the latest Windows version was released in 2020. Can we expect new=
er
> > versions to appear?
>=20
> Yes, at some point.  In the meantime, you can use a snapshot for Linux
> in WSL(2).

That's the main reason: The Cygwin port of Gforth did fall behind in=20
capabilities compared to running Gforth in WSL, especially the WSLG in Wind=
ows=20
11, which offers fully accelerated graphics support, something I did not ma=
nage=20
to get to work on the Windows port.  Maybe, because I run Windows in=20
VirtualBox, which has a very outdated way of virtualizing hardware=20
acceleration, so I just can't test this.  I do not use Windows myself for=20
anything else than porting Gforth, and the last Windows license I bought ca=
me=20
with a laptop I bought 10 years ago, and the first thing I did with this la=
ptop=20
was to wipe off Windows.  I used the key to run Windows in VirtualBox, thou=
gh. =20
Later, I managed to buy all computers so far without Windows tax.

If there's no other volunteer stepping in, no further work on this part wil=
l=20
be done.  I always used the easiest to compile for environment to compile a=
=20
Unix/Linux program on Windows, and that was Cygwin up to about 2018 or so, =
and=20
with WLS getting better and better, that became the environment of choice. =
I=20
still occasionally compiled the Windows version (without improving it), but=
 in=20
2020, my signing card (which was more and more difficult to use in VirtualB=
ox)=20
reached the arbitrary low limit of certificate slots, so I was no longer ab=
le=20
to sign the binaries, something that is necessary because otherwise the=20
antivirus programs are prone to false-positive alerts that Forth systems ar=
e=20
malware (they do on Win32Forth).  I could have bought a new signing card, b=
ut=20
this was the last straw.

Richard Stallman says you should not waste your time with proprietary=20
operating systems if there are better things to do, your time is a scarce=20
resource, and you should not use it to enhance proprietary operating system=
s. =20
We do not want to exclude Windows users as such from using Gforth (most of=
=20
them are held hostage one way or the other), but WSLG offers excellent supp=
ort=20
for using the Linux version of Gforth, including graphics through MINOS2 (b=
oth=20
Wayland and X11, with Wayland being the preferred method) and everything.

The literal quote from the GNU Manual is:

> If people pressure you to make your program run on Windows, and you are n=
ot
> interested, you can respond with, =E2=80=9CSwitch to GNU/Linux =E2=80=94 =
your freedom
> depends on it.=E2=80=9D

https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/CPU-Portability.html#CPU-Porta=
bility

The current situation is that you don't even have to switch away from Windo=
ws=20
to use Linux, because Microsoft did an extremely well job (also compared to=
=20
the quality of their other software) at providing you with Linux through a=
=20
virtualization solution that is best of class (clearly better than VirtualB=
ox=20
running Windows, and with a lot of manual fine-tuning that is possible with=
 a=20
free operating system as guest).  My suggestion therefore is: try it, get u=
sed=20
to it, and when you feel comfortably, switch.

=2D-=20
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o id: kQusJzA;7*?t=3Duy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
https://net2o.de/

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