RE: Activity
"Jonathan Bachrach" <[email protected]> Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:27:55 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.goo.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1755907198== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C5977F.23471930" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C5977F.23471930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unfortunately, it's very hard to write an efficient object system on top of scheme. In order to implement efficient objects in scheme, you need either an amazing scheme compiler or you need access to low level primitives. Now I'm not saying that this isn't possible in chicken (which I think is pretty cool btw) but you definitely can't write an efficient object system directly on top of vanilla scheme. The other thing that gets complicated is how to interoperate with Scheme. Goo attempts to present an elegant objects all the way down model to the user which would be harder to maintain when on top of Scheme. I think CLOS fails in this regard. Jonathan _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Raffael Cavallaro Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 3:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Googoogaga] Activity On Aug 2, 2005, at Tue, Aug 2, 2:47 04 PM, Scott Graham wrote: The "embeddedness" of game consoles is: limited memory, though a reasonable amount (~16-64meg, and larger now), no virtual memory, soft real time constraints (especially for GC), multiple hardware threads, and the general unavailability of TTY and some general posix-y things (environment variables, etc.). There's also the question of targetting a variety of different processors: at least PPC, x86, MIPS. Anyhow, I'm not hoping you'll magically sort through all those problems, but I think goo would be the perfect thing to build on/around for a language that's very suitable for game programming. Along these lines, how difficult would it be to do goo's object system in scheme/on top of scheme? Then goo could run anywhere that a scheme implementation ran - I was thinking of chicken which compiles to ANSI C, but of course any scheme should work. regards, Ralph Raffael Cavallaro, Ph.D. [email protected] ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C5977F.23471930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Lucida Grande"; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'word-wrap: = break-word;-khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space'> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Unfortunately, it’s very hard = to write an efficient object system on top of scheme. In order to = implement efficient objects in scheme, you need either an amazing scheme compiler = or you need access to low level primitives. Now I’m not saying that = this isn’t possible in chicken (which I think is pretty cool btw) but = you definitely can’t write an efficient object system directly on top = of vanilla scheme. The other thing that gets complicated is how to interoperate with Scheme. Goo attempts to present an elegant = objects all the way down model to the user which would be harder to maintain when on = top of Scheme. I think CLOS fails in this = regard.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p= > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in = 0in 4.0pt'> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight: bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Raffael Cavallaro<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 02, = 2005 3:27 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> = [email protected]<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Googoogaga] = Activity</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Aug 2, 2005, at Tue, Aug 2, 2:47 04 PM, Scott Graham = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>The "embeddedness" of game consoles</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>is: limited = memory, though a reasonable amount (~16-64meg, and larger</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>now), no virtual = memory, soft real time constraints (especially for</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>GC), multiple = hardware threads, and the general unavailability of = TTY</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>and some general = posix-y things (environment variables, etc.). = There's</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>also the question = of targetting a variety of different processors: = at</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>least PPC, x86, = MIPS. Anyhow, I'm not hoping you'll magically = sort</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>through all those = problems, but I think goo would be the perfect thing</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"'>to build on/around = for a language that's very suitable for game</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D1 = face=3D"Lucida Grande"><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida = Grande"'>programming.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Along these lines, how difficult would it be to do goo's object = system in scheme/on top of scheme? Then goo could run anywhere that a scheme implementation ran - I was thinking of chicken which compiles to ANSI C, = but of course any scheme should work.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Ralph<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Raffael Cavallaro, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C5977F.23471930-- --===============1755907198== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Googoogaga mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csail.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/googoogaga --===============1755907198==--