Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

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Given that the Haskell platform page now documents what Mac X code 5 users
need to do after installing the current HP release,  2013.4.0.0 isn't going
to be a big advance on HP 2013.2.0.0 which is based on GHC 7.6.3 . As you
said why waste our limited finite resources if it isn't going to give us
something significant.

I don't understand comments of the form, we haven't had an HP Platform for
x months so we need one. If the comment was: I'm not a power user and with
the current platform I can't do Y which we will get with a new Platform I'd
understand. I don't see the point of releasing a new Platform version every
X months if it doesn't add significant capability or fix significant bugs.

7.8 is going to have significant new functionality as detailed in this
thread. Much of the new functionality coming with 7.8 will fix long
outstanding problems and bugs, e.g see the thread  [Haskell-cafe] Poll &
plea: State of GUI & graphics libraries in Haskell.  Given the choice
between a new HP platform still based on GHC 7.6.3 or a later one based on
7.8 I version I vote for waiting for a 7.8 based Platform


On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Mark Lentczner <[email protected]>wrote:

> A few specific points:
>
> 1) 2013.4.0.0 isn't really "ready to be pushed" - there were delays, and
> then some rolling updates... and some churn. While there is a proposed set
> of packages... and it does compile... there is still some work on the Mac
> version (it needs to incorporate my patch script for Mavericks).
>
> 2) If we roll out 2013.4.0.0 - that will mean a fair bit of work for all
> the packagers... and they (and I) won't be up for doing it again for a few
> months.
>
> 3) For the Mac release, I've really shied away from solutions that have
> people install a second C compiler. While some solutions for Mavericks had
> people installing gcc from macports or the like, I think we are better
> served with a solution that works with the default tool chain for the
> platform. I have no experience with FreeBSD, but I would think similar
> considerations apply (though at least there, everyone has ports.)
>
> 4) Stability in both GHC and the library eco-system seems (perhaps
> subjectively) more stable to me now than it did three/four years ago. In
> particular, many of the package maintainers for packages in the platform
> are already ready for the 7.8 release. Further, several important packages
> (text, aseon, cabal) work best with newer versions of core packages (which
> will be in 7.8) and are a bit hacky when working with the core shipped with
> 7.6.
>
> All in all, I'm still seeing this discussion coming down strongly in favor
> of delaying for 7.8. Further, I believe everyone involved so far is on
> board with the stability aims of the platform.
>
> - Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-platform mailing list
> Haskell-platform-9EcH6oogKlu2EFrm9oAg2GD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org
> http://projects.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-platform
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;tim=
es new roman&#39;,serif;font-size:large">Given that the Haskell platform pa=
ge now documents what Mac X code 5 users need to do after installing the cu=
rrent HP release, =A02013.4.0.0 isn&#39;t going to be a big advance on HP 2=
013.2.0.0 which is based on GHC 7.6.3 . As you said why waste our limited f=
inite resources if it isn&#39;t going to give us something significant.</di=
v>

<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;=
,serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,serif;font-size:large">I don&#39;t under=
stand comments of the form, we haven&#39;t had an HP Platform for x months =
so we need one. If the comment was: I&#39;m not a power user and with the c=
urrent platform I can&#39;t do Y which we will get with a new Platform I&#3=
9;d understand. I don&#39;t see the point of releasing a new Platform versi=
on every X months if it doesn&#39;t add significant capability or fix signi=
ficant bugs.=A0</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;=
,serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,serif;font-size:large">7.8 is going to h=
ave significant new functionality as detailed in this thread. Much of the n=
ew functionality coming with 7.8 will fix long outstanding problems and bug=
s, e.g see the thread =A0[Haskell-cafe] Poll &amp; plea: State of GUI &amp;=
 graphics libraries in Haskell. =A0Given the choice between a new HP platfo=
rm still based on GHC 7.6.3 or a later one based on 7.8 I version I vote fo=
r waiting for a 7.8 based Platform</div>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri,=
 Jan 24, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Mark Lentczner <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">A few specific points:<div>=
<br></div><div>1) 2013.4.0.0 isn&#39;t really &quot;ready to be pushed&quot=
; - there were delays, and then some rolling updates... and some churn. Whi=
le there is a proposed set of packages... and it does compile... there is s=
till some work on the Mac version (it needs to incorporate my patch script =
for Mavericks).</div>



<div><br></div><div>2) If we roll out 2013.4.0.0 - that will mean a fair bi=
t of work for all the packagers... and they (and I) won&#39;t be up for doi=
ng it again for a few months.</div><div><br></div><div>3) For the Mac relea=
se, I&#39;ve really shied away from solutions that have people install a se=
cond C compiler. While some solutions for Mavericks had people installing g=
cc from macports or the like, I think we are better served with a solution =
that works with the default tool chain for the platform. I have no experien=
ce with FreeBSD, but I would think similar considerations apply (though at =
least there, everyone has ports.)</div>



<div><br></div><div>4) Stability in both GHC and the library eco-system see=
ms (perhaps subjectively) more stable to me now than it did three/four year=
s ago. In particular, many of the package maintainers for packages in the p=
latform are already ready for the 7.8 release. Further, several important p=
ackages (text, aseon, cabal) work best with newer versions of core packages=
 (which will be in 7.8) and are a bit hacky when working with the core ship=
ped with 7.6.</div>



<div><br></div><div>All in all, I&#39;m still seeing this discussion coming=
 down strongly in favor of delaying for 7.8. Further, I believe everyone in=
volved so far is on board with the stability aims of the platform.</div>



<div><br></div><div>- Mark</div></div>
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rojects.haskell.org</a><br>
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tform" target=3D"_blank">http://projects.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listin=
fo/haskell-platform</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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