Re: 2nd gen Io
"William Tanksley, Jr" <[email protected]> Sat, 8 Mar 2014 18:40:55 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.io |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAFTBfO6i_XQakbjXdE5rw7r83FAr7t_uV3oo9+2eDx5XAQBxFQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--e89a8f3ba36f57b6fc04f4236c37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Startup time might be manageable if the root instance seed signed an image containing a group of objects rather than one object at a time (the other objects would be signed too, but they would be marked as trusted due to their inclusion). On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:51 PM, Scott Solmonson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Why stop there? > > Why not sign every object from a root instance seed from the initial > Lobby? Startup time would be increased hilariously, but in the "reusable > object" paradigm once they're up, they're up. And a chain of authorizatio= n > can then exist that effortlessly overflows across cores, systems, and > distance automagically. > > -SS > > -- > > NUNQUAM NON PARATUS =E2=98=A4 INCITATUS =C3=86TERNUS =E3=83=BD(=C2=B4=E2= =97=87=EF=BD=80)=E3=83=8E > > V/T: 00.1.408.718.6290 > > Skype: Scott Solmonson > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Steve Dekorte <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> I=E2=80=99d like to make the things that tend to be re-implemented in ty= pical >> projects part of the language - security, persistence, concurrency, >> distribution and user interaction. All of these could be seen as mapping >> problems and their solution as adding explicit mapping boundaries. >> >> The first idea (which was probably already done in Smalltalk in 1980s) i= s >> to add a pointer to each object in the system to it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Co= wner=E2=80=9D and have >> object ownership domains where the domain leader is an actor/process who= se >> execution thread is used for processing all messages sent to objects wit= hin >> it=E2=80=99s domain. Any object can become a domain of the objects below= it in the >> ownership graph. Domain boundaries are used to solve the problems of >> security (tracking and verifying authority to invoke behaviors), >> concurrency (avoid unexpected state changes, closely associate execution >> with the state it will be working on), distribution and persistence >> (boundaries determine the state which needs to be persisted or moved). >> >> Part of the persistence component is to support the indexing and lazy >> loading of individual objects and standard representations that can be >> externally manipulated and returned and merged with an optimistic lockin= g >> mechanism. >> >> The user interaction part involves extending slots to have metadata and = a >> standard set of properties which are used for the interface mapping. >> >> This would be a big project but hopefully there will be time in the >> future to take a stab at it. >> >> Sorry for the delay in responding, >> Steve >> >> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:06 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> > Come on Steve, there are Io fans who wanna hear about it! Let us chat. >> > >> > Selon Steve Dekorte <[email protected]>: >> >> >> >> On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:28 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> >> >>> When there's no matching slot, the "forward" slot is activated. >> >>> >> >>> I have this idea about a "before" slot: >> >>> >> >>> If "before" doesn't exist, everything works as usual. >> >>> >> >>> If "before" exists, it is always activated (and it receives the >> message) >> >> before >> >>> the slot lookup. Then, it produces a message (possibly the same) >> which will >> >> be >> >>> treated as usual. >> >>> >> >>> This could be used to test whether the sender as the "right" to >> access a >> >>> particular slot, for example. >> >> >> >> Hi Julien, >> >> >> >> I like the idea. On my list for a 2nd gen Io is some form of support >> for >> >> rights on all objects. >> >> >> >>> Is there already a way to do this at user level? >> >> >> >> You can get the same effect using a proxy to forward message to the >> real >> >> object. >> >> Io uses proxies for futures and supports turning all references of on= e >> object >> >> to another. >> >> >> >>> Also, would anybody have a little constructive criticism about Io? >> >> >> >> Always welcome! :) >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > >=20 > --e89a8f3ba36f57b6fc04f4236c37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> =20 <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><div dir=3D"ltr">Startup time might be manageable if the root inst= ance seed signed an image containing a group of objects rather than one obj= ect at a time (the other objects would be signed too, but they would be mar= ked as trusted due to their inclusion).</div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 6= , 2014 at 11:51 PM, Scott Solmonson <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrot= e:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 <div> <br><br> <div dir=3D"ltr">Why stop there?<div><br></div><div>Why not sign every obje= ct from a root instance seed from the initial Lobby? Startup time would be = increased hilariously, but in the "reusable object" paradigm once= they're up, they're up. And a chain of authorization can then exis= t that effortlessly overflows across cores, systems, and distance automagic= ally.</div> <div><br></div><div>-SS</div> </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <p>--</p><p>NUNQUAM NON PARATUS =E2=98=A4 INCITATUS =C3=86TERNUS =E3=83=BD(= =C2=B4=E2=97=87=EF=BD=80)=E3=83=8E</p><p>V/T: 00.1.408.718.6290</p><p>Skype= : Scott Solmonson</p></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Steve De= korte <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"= _blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;"> <br> I=E2=80=99d like to make the things that tend to be re-implemented in typic= al projects part of the language - security, persistence, concurrency, dist= ribution and user interaction. All of these could be seen as mapping proble= ms and their solution as adding explicit mapping boundaries.<br> <br> The first idea (which was probably already done in Smalltalk in 1980s) is t= o add a pointer to each object in the system to it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cowner= =E2=80=9D and have object ownership domains where the domain leader is an a= ctor/process whose execution thread is used for processing all messages sen= t to objects within it=E2=80=99s domain. Any object can become a domain of = the objects below it in the ownership graph. Domain boundaries are used to = solve the problems of security (tracking and verifying authority to invoke = behaviors), concurrency (avoid unexpected state changes, closely associate = execution with the state it will be working on), distribution and persisten= ce (boundaries determine the state which needs to be persisted or moved).<b= r> <br> Part of the persistence component is to support the indexing and lazy loadi= ng of individual objects and standard representations that can be externall= y manipulated and returned and merged with an optimistic locking mechanism.= <br> <br> The user interaction part involves extending slots to have metadata and a s= tandard set of properties which are used for the interface mapping.<br> <br> This would be a big project but hopefully there will be time in the future = to take a stab at it.<br> <br> Sorry for the delay in responding,<br> Steve<br> <br> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:06 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" targe= t=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br> > Come on Steve, there are Io fans who wanna hear about it! Let us chat.= <br> ><br> > Selon Steve Dekorte <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D= "_blank">[email protected]</a>>:<br> >><br> >> On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:28 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:omenvironment@free.= fr" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br> >>> Hi all,<br> >>><br> >>> When there's no matching slot, the "forward" slo= t is activated.<br> >>><br> >>> I have this idea about a "before" slot:<br> >>><br> >>> If "before" doesn't exist, everything works as u= sual.<br> >>><br> >>> If "before" exists, it is always activated (and it r= eceives the message)<br> >> before<br> >>> the slot lookup. Then, it produces a message (possibly the sam= e) which will<br> >> be<br> >>> treated as usual.<br> >>><br> >>> This could be used to test whether the sender as the "rig= ht" to access a<br> >>> particular slot, for example.<br> >><br> >> Hi Julien,<br> >><br> >> I like the idea. On my list for a 2nd gen Io is some form of suppo= rt for<br> >> rights on all objects.<br> >><br> >>> Is there already a way to do this at user level?<br> >><br> >> You can get the same effect using a proxy to forward message to th= e real<br> >> object.<br> >> Io uses proxies for futures and supports turning all references of= one object<br> >> to another.<br> >><br> >>> Also, would anybody have a little constructive criticism about= Io?<br> >><br> >> Always welcome! :)<br> >><br> >> Steve<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> ------------------------------------<br> <br> Yahoo Groups Links<br> <br> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/" target= =3D"_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/</a><br> <br> <*> Your email settings:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Email | Traditional<br> <br> <*> To change settings online go to:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/join" tar= get=3D"_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iolanguage/join</a><br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Yahoo! 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