Re: Closing out 2.7 beta 4

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Jeff Allen <[email protected]> wrote:

>  Jim:
>
> Thanks for all the work that went into this succinct position report. I've
> several other things going on at the moment that leave me not much time for
> Jython, during your beta 4 window. (Better from mid Nov.) But I'll pick off
> something from your high priority set and see where it goes.
>

Your fantastic work is something we all appreciate! Glad to see one such
bug already get squashed!


> ...
>
>  Failing tests
>
> In general, the most important problems to be fixed are those that
> directly tested by the regrtest. Here’s is the current list of failures,
> from regrtest itself:
>
>      [exec] 16 fails unexpected:
>      [exec]     test_asynchat test_asyncore test_dict_jy test_email
>      [exec]     test_email_renamed test_gzip test_import test_inspect
>      [exec]     test_isinstance test_json test_socket test_ssl test_strtod
>      [exec]     test_tarfile test_univnewlines test_xmlrpc
>
>  This is useful on its own! I often wonder whether what I see, mostly on
> Windows, is typical. I'm still getting a fair amount of "cannot delete"
> failure from unclosed files on Windows.
>

Here's what I think is happening: those os.unlink (= os.remove) errors are
probably happening on test code that believes it is running on Posix
(because it's looking at os.name, sees "java" and assumes *not Windows*).
But there's a different behavior between Posix and Windows, per os.remove's
docs (https://docs.python.org/2/library/os.html#os.remove):

*On Windows, attempting to remove a file that is in use causes an exception
to be raised; on Unix, the directory entry is removed but the storage
allocated to the file is not made available until the original file is no
longer in use.*


This would not be the first time we have seen this in the stdlib, including
the test suite.


>
> For a while someone was hosting a build-bot for us, but it became sporadic
> and has gone now. Such a thing would be useful but more so if we decided
> not to have failing tests but count skips removed as our measure of
> progress. (Skips ought not to be counted for CPython and GC specifics.) Is
> a build-bot possible?
>

I asked Darjus Loktevic privately about this, since he worked on the issue
 of CI support at the EuroPython sprints. Darjus has done some initial work
on Travis CI integration with our github mirror, and it's possible we could
also have this done for any PRs against that mirror, which would be a huge
gain in reviewer efficiency. But I will let him respond in more detail on
this thread!

> ...
>
> We plan to kickoff Jython 3.5 development at the PyCon 2015 sprints in
> Montreal; as with previous versioning,
>
> ...
>
>  Jython 3.5 should target a minimum of Java 8; and we should upgrade to
> using Antlr 4 for our parser support.
>
>  Ambitious! But interesting. It will be a stretch to be developing on two
> fronts: you don't have to read Python-dev for very long to be reminded of
> that.
>

Agreed. But getting to language support, vs standard library, should be
something that ca be done very quickly. Frank Wierzbicki has a prototype
Antlr 3 grammar in https://bitbucket.org/fwierzbicki/jython-grammar, which
should allow us to quickly add support like function annotations.
Presumably this is what we should do first, ideally before the PyCon 2015
sprint.

Another thing to know is that Python 3's stdlib is supposed to use Python
with optional C accelerators (this is combined during module import). This
helps PyPy, so it should help us too.

Interestingly, Antlr 4 ships with a sample Python 3 grammar:
https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4/blob/master/python3/Python3.g4
Now to get that working with all of the support we have done with Python
AST, along with code compilation effort and incremental parse support for
the console, will not be minor. But at least we have something we can look
at when we move to Antlr 4.

There are other interesting aspects, such as Argument Clinic, and how that
would relate to our internal expose infrastructure. I'm sure we will find
many details, hopefully none too frustrating!

- Jim

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