Re: Re: val initialization semantic is counterintuitive

martin odersky <[email protected]> Sun, 11 Sep 2016 11:42:45 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.comp.lang.scala
Message-ID <CAENVNkaDn4X6FZx0+4VUf2m8d9ebq4rT7OZV_GckuUC0P=RCEw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 10:53 AM, S=C3=A9bastien Doeraene <sjrdoeraene@gmai=
l.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Fun fact: we even have a test in Scala.js that makes sure that it behaves
> like that even for Scala.js-defined JS classes ^^
> https://github.com/scala-js/scala-js/blob/v0.6.12/test-
> suite/js/src/test/scala/org/scalajs/testsuite/jsinterop/
> ScalaJSDefinedTest.scala#L359-L367
>
> Btw, indeed, this is one of the 5 warnings that we get when compiling our
> test suite (not counting deprecation warnings):
>
> [warn] .../ScalaJSDefinedTest.scala:361: Reference to uninitialized value
> y
> [warn]       val x =3D y
> [warn]               ^
>
> Was that a real failure, or just a test to exercise this specifically?

Cheers

 - Martin




> Cheers,
> S=C3=A9bastien
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Adriaan Moors <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Val initialization is confusing, I agree, but note that you do get a
>> warning. I'm a bit concerned about making this an error as you could
>> override `val x` in a subclass (it's still weird, but should it be an
>> error?).
>>
>> Welcome to Scala 2.12.0-RC1 (Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM, Java
>> 1.8.0_102).
>> Type in expressions for evaluation. Or try :help.
>>
>> scala> class T {
>>      |   val x =3D y // compiles OK, x =3D 0
>>      |   val y =3D 5
>>      | }
>> *<console>:12: warning: Reference to uninitialized value y*
>>          val x =3D y // compiles OK, x =3D 0
>>                  ^
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 10:44 PM martin odersky <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that's a suggestion worth considering! In general it is
>>> extremely hard to detect uninitialized fields statically. But a scheme =
of
>>> disallowing direct forward references is easy to do and catches the mos=
t
>>> obvious bugs.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>  - Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 1:42 AM, Sofoklis Papasofokli <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Strange that nobody commented on this one for so long.
>>>>
>>>> I know its an old thread but i keep getting issues from this, I also
>>>> believe there should be a compiler error in this situation, its totall=
y
>>>> unexpected behavior.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Sofoklis
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2011 at 5:14:16 PM UTC+2, Eugen Labun wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> eventually (or even surely) this is an old question but I haven't
>>>>> found an explanation for this
>>>>> simple situation (nor in Language Specification, nor in Scala-Book).
>>>>>
>>>>> (More complicated cases are described in this excellent faq from Paul=
:
>>>>> https://github.com/paulp/scala-faq/wiki/Initialization-Order)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Constructions like
>>>>>
>>>>>   def m {
>>>>>     val x =3D y // compile error "forward reference extends over
>>>>> definition of value x"
>>>>>     val y =3D 5
>>>>>   }
>>>>>
>>>>> cause a compile error if used in methods,
>>>>> but are accepted in constructors/initializers:
>>>>>
>>>>>   class/object T {
>>>>>     val x =3D y // compiles OK, x =3D 0
>>>>>     val y =3D 5
>>>>>   }
>>>>>
>>>>> The 'x' in the code above gets initialized to 0 (!), not to 5.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Both -- acceptance by the compiler and initialization to 0 -- are
>>>>> counterintuitive to me.
>>>>> Would a compile error for the second case ("illegal forward
>>>>> reference") not be a more preferable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm aware of '-Xcheckinit' compiler option. But this introduces only
>>>>> *runtime* check and doesn't
>>>>> prevent the code to compile.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There was a ticket https://lampsvn.epfl.ch/trac/scala/ticket/399, but
>>>>> it's closed. I cannot
>>>>> understand the reason of closing (it cites one more example of such
>>>>> counterintuitive behavior but
>>>>> doesn't explain why this behavior can't be changed).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Java handles a semantically analogous situation as expected:
>>>>>
>>>>>   class C {
>>>>>     final int a =3D 3;
>>>>>     {
>>>>>       System.out.println("a: " + a); // OK
>>>>>       System.out.println("y: " + y); // Error: illegal forward
>>>>> reference
>>>>>     }
>>>>>     final int x =3D y;  // Error: illegal forward reference
>>>>>     final int y =3D 5;
>>>>>
>>>>>     public static void main(String[] args) {
>>>>>       // final int x =3D y; // Error: cannot find symbol variable y
>>>>>       final int y =3D 5;
>>>>>     }
>>>>>   }
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that Scala vals do not map 1:1 to Java final variables,
>>>>> and that generating bytecode
>>>>> from Scala code is much more complicated (having in mind such things
>>>>> as unified access principle and
>>>>> therefore introducing methods for vals/vars, mapping of Scala's
>>>>> primary constructor to constructors
>>>>> and initializers in Java, inheritance and overriding val->def->var,
>>>>> ...)
>>>>>
>>>>> But, despite how complicated can be the generated code, hopefully,
>>>>> might it be possible to detect
>>>>> such forward references in Scala parser and generate an error?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Eugen
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "scala-language" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to [email protected].
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Martin Odersky
>>> EPFL and Lightbend
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "scala-language" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to [email protected].
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>> --
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>> email to [email protected].
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>>
>
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Martin Odersky
EPFL and Lightbend

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 10:53 AM, S=C3=A9bastien Doeraene <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">sjrdoeraene=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hello,<br><br></div>Fun fact: we even have a t=
est in Scala.js that makes sure that it behaves like that even for Scala.js=
-defined JS classes ^^<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/scala-js/scala-js/b=
lob/v0.6.12/test-suite/js/src/test/scala/org/scalajs/testsuite/jsinterop/Sc=
alaJSDefinedTest.scala#L359-L367" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/scal=
a-js/<wbr>scala-js/blob/v0.6.12/test-<wbr>suite/js/src/test/scala/org/<wbr>=
scalajs/testsuite/jsinterop/<wbr>ScalaJSDefinedTest.scala#L359-<wbr>L367</a=
><br></div><br>Btw, indeed, this is one of the 5 warnings that we get when =
compiling our test suite (not counting deprecation warnings):<br><br><span =
style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">[warn] .../ScalaJSDefinedTest.sca=
la:<wbr>361: Reference to uninitialized value y<br>[warn]=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 val x =3D y<br>[warn]=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ^</span><br><br></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><div>Was that a real failure, or just a test to exe=
rcise this specifically?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><b=
r></div><div>=C2=A0- Martin</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div></div>Cheers=
,<br></div>S=C3=A9bastien<br></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 11, 2=
016 at 10:37 AM, Adriaan Moors <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adri=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Val initializ=
ation is confusing, I agree, but note that you do get a warning. I&#39;m a =
bit concerned about making this an error as you could override `val x` in a=
 subclass (it&#39;s still weird, but should it be an error?).</div><div><fo=
nt face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">Welcom=
e to Scala 2.12.0-RC1 (Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM, Java 1.8.0_102).<=
/font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">Type in expressions for evaluatio=
n. Or try :help.</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div=
><div><font face=3D"monospace">scala&gt; class T {</font></div><div><font f=
ace=3D"monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 val x =3D y // compiles OK, =
x =3D 0</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=
=A0 val y =3D 5</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0| }</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace"><b>&lt;console&gt;:12: war=
ning: Reference to uninitialized value y</b></font></div><div><font face=3D=
"monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0val x =3D y // compiles OK, x=
 =3D 0</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0^</font></div></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 10:44 PM martin oder=
sky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">odersky@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">I think that&#39;s a suggestion worth considering! In general it is extr=
emely hard to detect uninitialized fields statically. But a scheme of disal=
lowing direct forward references is easy to do and catches the most obvious=
 bugs.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0- Mar=
tin<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Se=
p 10, 2016 at 1:42 AM, Sofoklis Papasofokli <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<b=
r><br>Strange that nobody commented on this one for so long. <br><br>I know=
 its an old thread but i keep getting issues from this, I also believe ther=
e should be a compiler error in this situation, its totally unexpected beha=
vior.<br><br>Best Regards,<br>Sofoklis<br><br>On Tuesday, March 22, 2011 at=
 5:14:16 PM UTC+2, Eugen Labun wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">Hi all,<p>eventually (or even surely) this is an old question but I haven=
&#39;t found an explanation for this<br>simple situation (nor in Language S=
pecification, nor in Scala-Book).</p><p>(More complicated cases are describ=
ed in this excellent faq from Paul:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/paulp/=
scala-faq/wiki/Initialization-Order" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://github.com/paulp/scala<wbr>-faq/wiki/Initialization-Order</a><wbr>)</p=
><p><br>Constructions like</p><p>=C2=A0 def m {<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 val x =3D =
y // compile error &quot;forward reference extends over definition of value=
 x&quot;<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 val y =3D 5<br>=C2=A0 }</p><p>cause a compile err=
or if used in methods,<br>but are accepted in constructors/initializers:</p=
><p>=C2=A0 class/object T {<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 val x =3D y // compiles OK, x =
=3D 0<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 val y =3D 5<br>=C2=A0 }</p><p>The &#39;x&#39; in the=
 code above gets initialized to 0 (!), not to 5.</p><p><br>Both -- acceptan=
ce by the compiler and initialization to 0 -- are counterintuitive to me.<b=
r>Would a compile error for the second case (&quot;illegal forward referenc=
e&quot;) not be a more preferable?</p><p><br>I&#39;m aware of &#39;-Xchecki=
nit&#39; compiler option. But this introduces only *runtime* check and does=
n&#39;t<br>prevent the code to compile.</p><p><br>There was a ticket <a hre=
f=3D"https://lampsvn.epfl.ch/trac/scala/ticket/399" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">https://lampsvn.epfl.ch/trac/s<wbr>cala/ticket/399</a>, but it&=
#39;s closed. I cannot<br>understand the reason of closing (it cites one mo=
re example of such counterintuitive behavior but<br>doesn&#39;t explain why=
 this behavior can&#39;t be changed).</p><p><br>Java handles a semantically=
 analogous situation as expected:</p><p>=C2=A0 class C {<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 f=
inal int a =3D 3;<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 System.out.pri=
ntln(&quot;a: &quot; + a); // OK<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 System.out.println=
(&quot;y: &quot; + y); // Error: illegal forward reference<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 }<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 final int x =3D y; =C2=A0// Error: illegal forward refe=
rence<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 final int y =3D 5;</p><p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 public static=
 void main(String[] args) {<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 // final int x =3D y; /=
/ Error: cannot find symbol variable y<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 final int y =
=3D 5;<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }<br>=C2=A0 }</p><p><br>I understand that Scala val=
s do not map 1:1 to Java final variables, and that generating bytecode<br>f=
rom Scala code is much more complicated (having in mind such things as unif=
ied access principle and<br>therefore introducing methods for vals/vars, ma=
pping of Scala&#39;s primary constructor to constructors<br>and initializer=
s in Java, inheritance and overriding val-&gt;def-&gt;var, ...)</p><p>But, =
despite how complicated can be the generated code, hopefully, might it be p=
ossible to detect<br>such forward references in Scala parser and generate a=
n error?</p><p><br><span><font color=3D"#888888">--<br>Regards,<br>Eugen<br=
></font></span></p><span><font color=3D"#888888"><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></=
p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>=
</p></font></span></blockquote></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra">-- <br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">=
<br>Martin Odersky<br>EPFL and Lightbend</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"=
>
</font></span></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">

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<div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><br>Marti=
n Odersky<br>EPFL and Lightbend</div>
</div></div>

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