Re: Re: Shrinking alpha image (was Re: Proposal to get to the triad)

I've said before that I think a "release boss" is either something we
can't have, or a misnomer. Raising awareness of projects that people are
starting already is just fine, but IMO, we can't, and shouldn't, do much
more.

Let me explain how little is too much - when we posted 3.5a, and
released it with two fixes that people asked for, that was probably too
much. Yes, I know I was one of the people for it, but consider this
consequence - 3.5 is in beta, soon in gamma. Have we heard one voice on
any squeak list saying "gee guys this actually works"? not that I
noticed.

It's already in. The advocates for it have "won". If there's a screw up
(for example, it clashses with another recent change), we'll find it
when we're into 3.6. If we don't actually test releases, there's no
point in having release cycles at all - it just generates fruitless
discussion. We could for that matter just stop every 300 updates or 3
months and call it a release, and the name would be worthless.

I think the solution is a strict "if you want it, you test it" policy.
Bug fixes don't go into the image unless they're externally tested and
so forth.

Heck, adding code that's very broken is much healthier (in alpha phase)
- at least it's likely to bug enough people that they'll make sure it
gets fixed (at least while avoiding the "it's so central/complex nobody
can fix it" syndrome of 3.3 modules).

Generally, I think we can have either a real policy (fixed standards),
or a real leadership (human voice telling people what direction to go),
not both. Since more people in the community already want to pull a
specific direction, than want to apply specific standards, I think our
policies and actions as Guides should complement by focusing on setting
standards.

If we need to help specific directions materialize, it is more by giving
direct, quick feedback and help to people that want to do them, than by
proclaiming it should be done.

That might just be a bias on my part talking, but it'll definitely color
what I'm going to focus on.

Daniel

Ned Konz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thursday 20 March 2003 12:36 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > And btw, who of us guides should be in charge of making sure that
> > we pin down the list of planned things for 3.6? I have seen
> > numerous posts on this subject but someone needs to collect these
> > into a "big list" that we can condense somewhere and come up with
> > "The Grand 3.6 Plan". In short - who should be the "Release Boss"
> > for 3.6? :-)
> >
> > And the gist of that plan should of course be summarized on this
> > page: http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/79
> 
> I've started this process by putting some things on the Swiki.
> -- 
> Ned Konz
> http://bike-nomad.com
> GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
From [email protected] Thu Mar 20 22:55:19 2003
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: (qmail 24530 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2003 22:55:19 -0000
Received: from cpe-66-1-184-254.ut.sprintbbd.net (HELO bountifulbaby.com)
	(66.1.184.254)
	by mail.theinternetone.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2003 22:55:19 -0000
Received: from smalltalkpro.com (nevinhp [192.168.0.8])
	by bountifulbaby.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2KMtCr68570
	for <[email protected]>;
	Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:55:12 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from [email protected])
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:02:11 -0700
From: Nevin Pratt <[email protected]>
Organization: DP Creations, LLC
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
	rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation] Re: Shrinking alpha image (was Re: Proposal
 to get to the triad)
References: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: [email protected], Discussing the Squeak Foundation
	<[email protected]>
List-Id: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <squeakfoundation.lists.squeakfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lnx-12.ams-2.theinternetone.net/pipermail/squeakfoundation>
List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:55:20 -0000



Daniel Vainsencher wrote:

> We could for that matter just stop every 300 updates or 3
>months and call it a release, 
>

Not to detract from your post, but isn't that basically what the Lisp 
guys did with the Yahoo stores development?  Except that, instead of 
after, say, "x" number of updates, or "t" amount of time, it was 
whenever management walked downstairs and asked for a release.  They 
gave it to them, and assigned some arbitrary release number to it.

At least, that's the lore I remember.

Nevin