RE: Debian-legal on squeak

"Andreas Raab" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Which was written in Argentia, fortunately. Now if we put the primary
> download site into the Netherlands we should be pretty safe in this respect
> ;-) Good thing that SqueakMap is in Sweden, heh, heh ;-)
... and you think that US law doesn't reach there? Maybe not yet,
but....

tim

-- 
Tim Rowledge, [email protected], http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim
Fractured Idiom:- APRES MOE LE DELUGE - Larry and Curly get wet
From [email protected] Fri Mar 28 08:51:27 2003
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Tim Rowledge <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Andreas Raab" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Which was written in Argentia, fortunately. Now if we put the primary
> > download site into the Netherlands we should be pretty safe in this respect
> > ;-) Good thing that SqueakMap is in Sweden, heh, heh ;-)
> ... and you think that US law doesn't reach there? Maybe not yet,
> but....

Hey! Don't be rude. (Insert small smiley here meaning that I am only 50%
joking)

regards, Göran

PS. Btw, I wonder for how long the US is going to hold a Swedish citizen
imprisoned on Cuba without even telling him what he is charged for. And
AFAIK Sweden is the only country that has issued a protest to this.
Frankly, I am pretty damn sick of US right now.

PPS. Not my intention to start a political flamewar here, but I just
can't help it. Some things are just more  important than others.
From [email protected] Tue Apr 01 07:56:47 2003
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Subject: [Squeakfoundation]3.6 MasterPlanner!?
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Hi all!

Well, it seems we lost a thread here somewhere. 3.6 is starting up and
we really need to have a Plan for it.  No, don't say "we need no plan,
just a date" because that just isn't true.

We need *both* IMHO. 3.6 is really going to shake things around so I
repeat - We Really Do Need A Plan - ok?

Good, now that we have that out of the way :-) we also quickly realize
that to get a plan we need someone who crafts it. No, don't say "we
don't want somebody telling us what to do" because that isn't the way it
should be done.

The plan should of course be worked out on squeak-dev through
discussions (as always) but somebody needs to moderate, collect and
formulate it. So, without further ado - who takes this assignment?

I have the following suggestions:

- Ned. But Ned is worth so much more doing harvesting (?) or other
complex debugger-digging, and I don't think Ned really "likes" the
moderation role! :-)

- Tim. Tim has a lot of good knowledge when it comes to the tougher big
enhancements we have lined up in front of us possibly in part for 3.6
(think Anthony), what do you say Tim?

- Me and Doug. Since Daniel (otherwise an obvious choice) has indicated
that he isn't interested (I got that through "readsay") the last
alternative is a combination of me and Doug. We tend to agree on most
things and we are already lined up to take this assignment if Ned and
Tim says no.

Note: I didn't propose Craig here becuase I think he is busy with Squat
etc and not really interested in this. Just a guess.

Ok, so lets be quick here - Ned, Tim or Me+Doug? And please don't start
discussing the need for someone doing this - Doug wants someone and he
*is* in charge of the update stream so darnit, just accept the fact that
we need someone doing this. :-)

As soon as we have this decided the MasterPlanner(s) should probably IMO
start a quick "round up" thread on squeak-dev to collect ideas on what
3.6 will/should/could be made of.

regards, Göran
From [email protected] Tue Apr 01 11:47:18 2003
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Subject: [Squeakfoundation]Re: Sublicensing seems possible
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Hi all and Andrew!

(since I didn't want to revive this thread on squeak-dev I CCed Andrew
since I am not sure Andrew is on the SqF-list)

Two very simple questions:

1. Are my questions that I posted (see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/message/58816 among others) so
stupid that they aren't worth replying to? If they are then please
people, *say* so. That way I can shut up and stop making a fool of
myself by asking questions and being ignored.

2. Are we simply going to drop this ball just like we do every time it
is brought up? And I am not only talking about changing Squeak-L, most
of the issues at hand are about how we handle license questions in the
new package oriented Squeak.

There you all go, short and to the point! :-)

I just want to know because I don't want to spend time asking questions
and trying to straighten out how these things should work if my views
and questions aren't taken seriously and I am being ignored.

regards, Göran
From [email protected] Tue Apr 01 15:52:36 2003
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Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:33:39 +0200
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: [Squeakfoundation]Re: Sublicensing seems possible
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1. No, I think your questions are mostly to the point. But you did
directly ask Andrew. I have also in the past sometimes failed to get an
answer from Andrew, either getting one that didn't answer what I meant
(which I assume was misunderstanding), or not getting one at all. Andrew
owes me nothing, of course, I'm just saying we shouldn't take this
either personally or as very surprising.
2. I'm sorry, I simply got tired :-(. Though it may seem otherwise, I
find it a pain to think about these license/legal issues.

Cees, did you get an answer about posting your conversation log with
Apple?

Everybody, as Andrew said, if we want to change the license, we need
some concensus. So let's hear people. I want to bring this to squeak-dev
after we have some well worked out options. The list as I see it is
below. If you want to help bring this to closure, develop the option you
prefer.

Daniel

1. SqueakL is fine. I don't want to hear about these license anymore.
2. OSI compliance is good. (someone else is welcome to represent this
position)
3. DFSG compliant is good. We want to be able to distribute Squeak
through Debian. We want to recruit people that work on free software for
fun. We want people to use Squeak knowing it's safe, because it is free
software.

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi all and Andrew!
> 
> (since I didn't want to revive this thread on squeak-dev I CCed Andrew
> since I am not sure Andrew is on the SqF-list)
> 
> Two very simple questions:
> 
> 1. Are my questions that I posted (see
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/message/58816 among others) so
> stupid that they aren't worth replying to? If they are then please
> people, *say* so. That way I can shut up and stop making a fool of
> myself by asking questions and being ignored.
> 
> 2. Are we simply going to drop this ball just like we do every time it
> is brought up? And I am not only talking about changing Squeak-L, most
> of the issues at hand are about how we handle license questions in the
> new package oriented Squeak.
> 
> There you all go, short and to the point! :-)
> 
> I just want to know because I don't want to spend time asking questions
> and trying to straighten out how these things should work if my views
> and questions aren't taken seriously and I am being ignored.
> 
> regards, Göran
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
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Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:53:45 +0200
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]3.6 MasterPlanner!?
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Ok, Goran, I can see when I'm beaten :-)

Since I'm still not interested in taking this as a fixed role, and
you've decided it's needed, I don't mind if you and Doug (or someone
else) take it up. Heck, I'll even help along occaisonally. While I'm at
it, I'll try to subvert it from a "Plan", to a "statement of the Guides
perceived best direction for Squeak n.m" :-)

What do I think should happen in 3.6?

I think the most important thing for this version is not to get to a
specific goal, but to get a few processes going. Here's a partial list.

* Restart harvesting using the new process, hopefully removing some
backlog.
* Get the simulator fixes by Craig back in.
* Start merging Anthony's work. Run time stuff is a good place to start.
* Start merging MCP's work, as they start to send it to us. Same for
KCP, except I for one am less aware of what they're working on, and have
less of an idea as to whether they'll have something ready to merge
anytime soon.
* Networking/Streams/Sockets is something where a few people have put in
quite a lot of work. Find a way to start merging at least some of this
stuff, in small pieces. Ideally, we should do everything possible
without breaking networking applications. Then break networking (start
raising exceptions instead of dialogs) in 3.7alpha.
* SM 1.1

Daniel


[email protected] wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> Well, it seems we lost a thread here somewhere. 3.6 is starting up and
> we really need to have a Plan for it.  No, don't say "we need no plan,
> just a date" because that just isn't true.
> 
> We need *both* IMHO. 3.6 is really going to shake things around so I
> repeat - We Really Do Need A Plan - ok?
> 
> Good, now that we have that out of the way :-) we also quickly realize
> that to get a plan we need someone who crafts it. No, don't say "we
> don't want somebody telling us what to do" because that isn't the way it
> should be done.
> 
> The plan should of course be worked out on squeak-dev through
> discussions (as always) but somebody needs to moderate, collect and
> formulate it. So, without further ado - who takes this assignment?
> 
> I have the following suggestions:
> 
> - Ned. But Ned is worth so much more doing harvesting (?) or other
> complex debugger-digging, and I don't think Ned really "likes" the
> moderation role! :-)
> 
> - Tim. Tim has a lot of good knowledge when it comes to the tougher big
> enhancements we have lined up in front of us possibly in part for 3.6
> (think Anthony), what do you say Tim?
> 
> - Me and Doug. Since Daniel (otherwise an obvious choice) has indicated
> that he isn't interested (I got that through "readsay") the last
> alternative is a combination of me and Doug. We tend to agree on most
> things and we are already lined up to take this assignment if Ned and
> Tim says no.
> 
> Note: I didn't propose Craig here becuase I think he is busy with Squat
> etc and not really interested in this. Just a guess.
> 
> Ok, so lets be quick here - Ned, Tim or Me+Doug? And please don't start
> discussing the need for someone doing this - Doug wants someone and he
> *is* in charge of the update stream so darnit, just accept the fact that
> we need someone doing this. :-)
> 
> As soon as we have this decided the MasterPlanner(s) should probably IMO
> start a quick "round up" thread on squeak-dev to collect ideas on what
> 3.6 will/should/could be made of.
> 
> regards, Göran
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
From [email protected] Tue Apr 01 16:28:11 2003
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Subject: 3.6 Release Plan ( Was: RE: [Squeakfoundation]3.6 MasterPlanner!? )
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:28:01 -0500
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Here's my suggestion --=20

4/7 - 4/13 ALPHA
Bug Fixes Archive harvest-fest by the community

4/14 - 4/20
Removal scripts for apps that were integrated with 3.4 ( Scamper, etc. )
--With each 'removal' update, we should update the Welcome window to say =
"load this package from SqueakMap".
--Each 'removal' update should be accompanied by an 'install' script =
registered on SqueakMap

Sanity checks; unit testing; x-app testing

4/21 - 6/15 =20
Craig's simulator fixes
Anthony's runtime enhancements (broken out separately from his closure =
compiler)
Merge in MCP work
Merge in KCP work
"magicShrink" from the Squat project
Networking/Streams/Sockets framework enhancements?
File framework enhancements?

6/16 - 7/13 BETA
Rebuild after the aftershocks settle down... :)
-Fixes for bugs in stuff submitted during alpha phase
More harvesting
Sanity checks; unit testing; x-app testing

7/14 - 7/31 GAMMA
Final harvesting
Package for final release