License Poll

http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/100
From [email protected] Tue Apr 15 07:44:26 2003
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"Brent Vukmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/100

First of all I don't understand this page at all. What are the numbers?
Perhaps Daniel misunderstood it, I don't know.

Furthermore, this page below that Brent just made unfortunately makes it
sound much simpler than it is.

	http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/87

It doesn't really matter if we get Apple to change their license. Apple
only owns a small part (I have heard the number 20% - accuracy unknown
but you get the point) of current Squeak and they can not change the
license for the rest. And who owns the major part of the rest? Have a
guess. And do we really want to knock on that door? Personally I would
say no.

I would be much more interested in investigating sublicensing staying
within Squeak-L.

regards, Göran

PS. I also have an old thread with a license FAQ draft I once wrote
collecting dust. Should polish it up and complement it with the facts
that we have learned this time around - there were a few eyeopeners -
like for example the simple fact I outlined above. And then we should
put this on minnow IMHO. Brent, if you are interested - could you help
me out sorting through it all?
From [email protected] Tue Apr 15 07:59:31 2003
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:00:15 +0200
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]License Poll
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Good points. Maybe Daniel didn't misunderstand, but interpreted it
loosely ;-)

I just put my rated preferences, as in a condorcet vote. Anyway, Goran
is right in that the options should probably be limited to what appears
to be our best bet, which is sublicensing. 

Considering which, we need to find out our real, precise legal options
(probably by hiring a lawyer). So maybe the real question is "what are
peoples preferences between the targets we might be able to achieve?"
under those constraints. As in "DFSG compliant", "OSI Compliant" and
"Leave it as is".

Daniel

[email protected] wrote:
> "Brent Vukmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/100
> 
> First of all I don't understand this page at all. What are the numbers?
> Perhaps Daniel misunderstood it, I don't know.
> 
> Furthermore, this page below that Brent just made unfortunately makes it
> sound much simpler than it is.
> 
> 	http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/87
> 
> It doesn't really matter if we get Apple to change their license. Apple
> only owns a small part (I have heard the number 20% - accuracy unknown
> but you get the point) of current Squeak and they can not change the
> license for the rest. And who owns the major part of the rest? Have a
> guess. And do we really want to knock on that door? Personally I would
> say no.
> 
> I would be much more interested in investigating sublicensing staying
> within Squeak-L.
> 
> regards, Göran
> 
> PS. I also have an old thread with a license FAQ draft I once wrote
> collecting dust. Should polish it up and complement it with the facts
> that we have learned this time around - there were a few eyeopeners -
> like for example the simple fact I outlined above. And then we should
> put this on minnow IMHO. Brent, if you are interested - could you help
> me out sorting through it all?
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
From [email protected] Tue Apr 15 13:52:32 2003
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Subject: RE: [Squeakfoundation]License Poll
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From: "Brent Vukmer" <[email protected]>
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Hmm..  What Daniel did was not what I intended -- I meant for people to just put their name under one license.

I realize there are a whole bunch of issues here, including sub-licensing.  It just seemed like it would be helpful to get a sense from the community of what kind of license would be preferred..

Goran, I'd be happy to help you pull together info to update the license FAQ.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:19 PM
> To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
> Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]License Poll
> 
> 
> "Brent Vukmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/100
> 
> First of all I don't understand this page at all. What are 
> the numbers?
> Perhaps Daniel misunderstood it, I don't know.
> 
> Furthermore, this page below that Brent just made 
> unfortunately makes it
> sound much simpler than it is.
> 
> 	http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/87
> 
> It doesn't really matter if we get Apple to change their 
> license. Apple
> only owns a small part (I have heard the number 20% - accuracy unknown
> but you get the point) of current Squeak and they can not change the
> license for the rest. And who owns the major part of the rest? Have a
> guess. And do we really want to knock on that door? Personally I would
> say no.
> 
> I would be much more interested in investigating sublicensing staying
> within Squeak-L.
> 
> regards, Göran
> 
> PS. I also have an old thread with a license FAQ draft I once wrote
> collecting dust. Should polish it up and complement it with the facts
> that we have learned this time around - there were a few eyeopeners -
> like for example the simple fact I outlined above. And then we should
> put this on minnow IMHO. Brent, if you are interested - could you help
> me out sorting through it all?
From [email protected] Tue Apr 15 23:10:56 2003
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:25:54 +0200
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Squeakfoundation]License Poll
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Brent Vukmer <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hmm..  What Daniel did was not what I intended -- I meant for people to just put their name under one license.
An if I don't care between MIT and BSD, but strongly object to artistic
license? By rating, you can get a more expressive poll, and there's a
way to treat it as a fair election.

> I realize there are a whole bunch of issues here, including sub-licensing.  It just seemed like it would be helpful to get a sense from the community of what kind of license would be preferred..
I agree it's a good idea, but the results will be more meaningful if
they really refer to *kinds* of licenses, and not specific licenses,
which we probably can't have.

Daniel
From [email protected] Wed Apr 16 07:40:54 2003
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Hi guys

I'm diving in systemDictionary and other dark places of Squeak and I 
would really appreciate that in the future you ***REJECT*** any 
goodies, cool add-ons that violates basic OO principles.
Such as:

- Favor subtyping versus subclassing: a Tool should not inherit from 
List.
	A tool is not a List it is composed from a list
- Avoid: Direct access to Smalltalk
- Avoid: Direct access to super super super instance
- Avoid: use of super with a different selectors
- Avoid: Adding methods to the wrong places
- Avoid: Violate basic layering principles
- Add PopUp in DOMAIN classes (SmartStreamRef should not refer to PopUp,
this is the client of SmartStreamRef to do the work,)
- Classes that mixes UI and Domain
- trash classes

Sorry I had to say that, the OO programmers inside me what 
exploding.....

Stef

Sometimes I feel sad but this is fun to clean.....




Prof. Dr. Stéphane DUCASSE
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
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different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

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