Re: Network stuff

Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]> wrote:
> If nobody has particular objections, I propose we do that next step
> after merging KCP, which should be after the removals. 

Sounds fine!

Btw, later today I will be exercising the removals in the aggregated
removal script and see if they all "come back" in a somewhat working
state when reinstalled. I will then post about my findings and if all
"looks ok" we can harvest that combo in one sweep as suggested by Doug.

Ok?

regards, Göran
From [email protected] Wed May 07 07:11:08 2003
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Hi all!

As I said earlier - I am all for it. Though I would still like to hear
Michael's own words on the topic first.

And - regarding the package-on-SM-or-in-image-question:

Making code better in the image does not conflict with the longer term
goal of moving that code out of the image. When it is eventually (as
everything will be) moved out into a package which someone takes
responsibility for as a Steward then naturally that code isn't going to
be maintained "in the image" at all. Obviously.

But breaking out this code from the image is probably a bit of work -
and let us pick a few other easier ones and learning the ropes before we
get into the deep end.

And while the code is sitting in the image we should of course make it
better using the normal harvesting/updates. So let's hear Michael and
then harvest this little sucker. :-)

regards, Göran
From [email protected] Wed May 07 07:58:03 2003
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Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]Incorporating removals & KCP stuff
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Hi Doug and all!

Doug Way <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 08:19 PM, Daniel Vainsencher wrote:
> 
> > I say just split the removals. Notify the owners/on squeak-dev, and
> > remove only the packages that can return. We can do the other removals
> > either as people fix the packages or next release. Let's just get it
> > over with, so we can go back to work.
> 
> That sounds like a plan... I will just incorporate the 7 removal 
> packages that had add-on packages that could be loaded properly, and we 
> can do the others as they get fixed.

Great. Perfect.

Question:

You wrote about how to make this into an update since SM isn't in the
vanilla image.
This seems like an interesting problem I haven't really thought about.

When removing stuff from the image using the update stream eventually we
will cut off the branch we are sitting on. Somewhere along the way we
need to adjust how this works.

Tricky.

regards, Göran
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On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 09:57:27AM +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> You wrote about how to make this into an update since SM isn't in the
> vanilla image.
> This seems like an interesting problem I haven't really thought about.
>=20
I allways thought that we would simply use the changeset's that are
referenced by the Squeakmap-packages, put those into the update-stream
and then remove the SqueakMap entry: very simple, no SqueakMap needed
for updating via the update-stream.

    Marcus


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On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 01:42:09AM -0400, Doug Way wrote:
>=20
> Looking more carefully, it looks like the "Benchmarks" package includes=
=20
> the MacroBenchmarks package that I thought was missing.  So that one's=20
> probably okay.
>=20
Yes, took the liberty to make a singe benchmarks package... no need
for having this split up into 3 packages with 1 class each.
(And for the future, these benchmarks could share one framework
for timing/reporting, and not implement 3 different similar ones)

   Marcus


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From [email protected] Wed May 07 08:35:24 2003
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Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]Incorporating removals & KCP stuff
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Hi guys

I'm a bit lost to know how to proceed. Our changesets are based on 3.5 
for now and they are available on the page. I do not see the need to 
send them in the list now.
Daniel: noury did a pass and improved it ;)

This afternoon we will have a discussion with the others here

Stef

On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 02:19 AM, Daniel Vainsencher wrote:

> I say just split the removals. Notify the owners/on squeak-dev, and
> remove only the packages that can return. We can do the other removals
> either as people fix the packages or next release. Let's just get it
> over with, so we can go back to work.
>
> Do that, I'll test vs. KCP, we load KCP, and then resume harvesting the
> regular stuff.
>
> Daniel
>
> Doug Way <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> (moving this to the SqF list since we're doing the final coordination 
>> now...)
>>
>> Daniel Vainsencher wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok, I've gone through the KCP stuff. I know we orginally decided to 
>>> do
>>> the removals first, but I had an urge, and this doesn't touch so many
>>> different classes that I'm very worried about clashes. Anyway, it 
>>> seems
>>> as the designated reviewer for this specific project I got back from 
>>> my
>>> vacation before the removals were done, and I don't see much reason 
>>> not
>>> to merge these now, but I don't mind checking the conflicts if this
>>> proposal isn't accepted.
>>
>> Okay, we need to get moving on the KCP stuff and the removals now, so 
>> we can
>> move on with the 3.6 plan (including the various enhancements we've 
>> been
>> discussing).
>>
>> Here's what I would suggest:  We incorporate the 10 removals first, 
>> all in one
>> batch as Goran and I suggested.  This would be very soon, let's say 
>> tomorrow.
>> Then, Daniel can check for conflicts between the approved KCP items 
>> and the
>> removals.  My understanding is that there should be few conflicts.
>>
>> Then, the adjusted KCP changes can be incorporated (after having at 
>> least the
>> preambles posted to the list as a sort of final review).  If changes 
>> need to
>> be made in a few of the removed packages to account for the KCP 
>> changes,
>> perhaps Daniel could inform the package owners of the required 
>> changes.
>>
>>
>> Anyway, I think doing all the removals in one batch is the way to go. 
>>  There
>> will be two types of problems we'll have to deal with:
>>
>> 1. Problems/bugs caused by the removals.  These should be relatively 
>> minor and
>> easy to fix, I'd think.
>>
>> 2. Problems/bugs/conflicts when re-loading any or all of the 10 
>> packages.
>> These problems will probably be more significant, but these problems 
>> need to
>> be pushed back to the package owners at some point anyway.  We're 
>> moving to a
>> model where package owners need to maintain their packages against 
>> base image
>> (prerequisite) changes, so we might as well start this now.  It may 
>> well be
>> that some packages (such as PWS) are not actively maintained and 
>> become
>> obsolete because no one really uses them.  If that happens, either a 
>> more
>> active package maintainer will have to step up, or the package could 
>> be
>> removed from "Squeak Official" status, which would remove it from the 
>> public
>> release.
>>
>>
>> Before thinking about incorporating the 10 removals, I decided to do 
>> some
>> testing.  To remove the 10 packages, I gave Goran's removal script a 
>> try.
>> That appears to work.
>>
>> Then I decided to try re-adding the 10 packages one by one into an 
>> image to
>> get back to the "Full" release.  I did it in this order, with the 
>> following
>> results:
>>
>> 1. SUnit - Yes.
>> 2. BaseImage Tests - Yes.
>> 3. Celeste Installation - Yes.
>> 4. Games (and GamesTests) - Yes.
>> 5. VMMaker - No.  Not auto-installable, but trying to download it 
>> results in a
>> "MNU: download", even after setting the download directory.
>> 6. MacroBenchmarks - No.  Couldn't find a MacroBenchmarks package on 
>> SM!
>> 7. PWS Installation - Yes.
>> 8. Scamper - Yes.
>> 9. Speech - No.  Installation results in a "MNU: arpabet".
>> 10. Balloon3D - Yes.
>>
>> So, we need to at least fix the loading problems with the three 
>> packages
>> before incorporating the removals.
>>
>> Beyond that, ideally we'd also like to have Test packages for all 10 
>> of these
>> packages as well, which pass... right now only a few packages have 
>> them.  I
>> don't think we should hold up incorporating the removals for this, 
>> though.
>> But we should probably try to have them available before we move to 
>> 3.6beta,
>> at least.  Marcus and I can work on bugging the package owners to 
>> create these
>> Test packages.  All future package removal/additions will have to 
>> have a
>> corresponding Test package ahead of time so we don't get in this 
>> situation
>> again.
>>
>> We still need to resolve the issue of how I should load the removal 
>> script
>> without SqueakMap, SAR, etc., because those won't be there in the 
>> vanilla
>> 3.6alpha image.  Probably SAR is the only really important one... I 
>> don't know
>> if any require DVS.  I guess I'll just have to poke around with the 
>> removal
>> scripts and make them into a series of regular file-ins.  (An 
>> alternative
>> might be to include SAR in the base image for now.  SAR should 
>> probably be
>> part of the Full and Basic releases anyway.  Yes, we would end up 
>> splitting
>> off SAR again sometime later as we whittled down to the Minimal 
>> image, but so
>> what?  Same probably goes for SqueakMap.)
>>
>> - Doug Way
>> _______________________________________________
>> Squeakfoundation mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
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