Re: SqueakMap in the image (was Re: Incorporating removals & KCP stuff)

[Alternative browser]
Yes, that sounds cool. I think one good long term goal for such a
browser would be that it is possible to plug into it all of the
functionality of the RB, without having to subclass it. This forces you
to make quite a lot of the hooks that are needed to plug in other stuff
that should be in the browser, like package management, analysis tools,
and so forth.

Please let us know your plans.

Daniel

Stephane Ducasse <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Just a simple point about packages. I discussed a lot with Avi and
> I think that while DVS is a simple start the future is to have real 
> package and not only
> hack around the categories. Avi agrees on that.  I discussed recently 
> also with joseph
> and he said that Ginsu is free (I should send him a license).
> What would be good is to have a group of people discussing/cooperating 
> to create this asset.
> May be this is already in place (sorry for not knowing it).
> 
> So there is still a gap between having definitions in the image (like 
> in Ginsu) and only
> definitions in the exchange files but having definitions is important.  
> We should have a way
> to see in the file that we declare a new Class, Pool what ever. We 
> could have then multiple
> run-times if people want and we could load code without installing it. 
> So imagine what we could
> do.
> 
> Having support for real package in the image is not really difficult 
> but the browser is
> so much a pain that it will hamper any move. Nathanael and alex for the 
> traits and the
> classboxes had to fix, patch, this gory browser, Markus also for his 
> ideas. What we are
> planning to do here is to build our own browser where they could plug 
> what they need for
>   their research.
> I will check what is the plan but it should be still in our current 
> plans. First we want
> to fix the core (compiler, changes notification, classOrganization). 
> However, this means
> that we could take into account that other entities such as packages 
> could be used there too.
> 
> Stef
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
From [email protected] Tue May 27 07:53:07 2003
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Subject: [Squeakfoundation]Monthly report...
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Hi fellow Guides!

Anyone else interested in writing the monthly report for april-may?
The last one was on 7th of april. Pressure is mounting. :-)

regards, Göran
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From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]Monthly report...
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You did it well previously...

Daniel

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi fellow Guides!
> 
> Anyone else interested in writing the monthly report for april-may?
> The last one was on 7th of april. Pressure is mounting. :-)
> 
> regards, Göran
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
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By the way, forgot to mention that Brian Rice has stepped up to the
plate and is going to help me out with SM1.1. He will probably take on
the "package cache" part first.

regards, Göran
From [email protected] Tue May 27 14:30:23 2003
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Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]> wrote:
> You did it well previously...

:-) Flattery will get you.... a report!

I will try to sit down and write it tomorrow. Right now I am in the
process of moving SM to sqf btw. Will be nice to get it off my machine.
:-)

regards, Göran

PS. It was down this weekend, we obviously had some kind of power
shortage or something - I hope not too many suffered from it...
From [email protected] Wed May 28 20:30:23 2003
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Just de-lurking to provide info:

On Tue, 27 May 2003 [email protected] wrote:

> By the way, forgot to mention that Brian Rice has stepped up to the
> plate and is going to help me out with SM1.1. He will probably take on
> the "package cache" part first.

Yes, I have. I'm just involved to help Goran get the job done (even if
just at the level of "he talks, I code"). We seem to have SMFileCache and
SMResource handled, are working out the Links usage, and should be running
a test setup soon. I'll try to make sure he gets something online that
works first, and "does everything" later.

-- 
Brian T. Rice
LOGOS Research and Development
http://tunes.org/~water/
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Hi


I send the email to the foundation because I think that my proposal at 
the end is important and will save us a lot of broken code and 
frustration.
The beginning of the email is about how to deal with KCP produced in 
3.5 that break at load time
because of removed classes in 3.6.

> When you say "produce new changesets", you mean you want to upgrade 
> your 3.4-based KCP changesets so that they work with the current 
> 3.6alpha-5247?

Yes and I think that this is not the right way to do it because we 
always followed a add only stream.


>
>> What is your  idea of an efficient way to do that? Somebody will have 
>> to do the dirty  work so what is your point of view.
>
> The only thing I would suggest is using the ConflictChecker thingy, 
> which helps somewhat.  Using it will not necessarily catch *all* 
> possible conflict problems, but it will catch the direct method 
> conflicts, which are probably 90% of the problems you would see.  This 
> is typically "good enough", and then we can put it into the merged 
> changes into the update stream and let people find any remaining bugs.

OK I will try to use it, but right now I'm the only one doing KCP so if 
I have to check too much nothing will happen.
Sad but true.
>
> Let me know if you need any help using the ConflictChecker, or if you 
> have suggestions for improvements.
>
> Hopefully there are not a *large* number of conflicts that you will 
> see.  Unfortunately, when we have KCP and MCP and other people making 
> large changes all at the same time, some conflicts are unavoidable.  
> But of course better factoring will reduce the probability of 
> conflicts in the future.
>
> The other issue that comes up is that these KCP/MCP changes often 
> require changes to be made in the packages which were recently removed 
> (SUnit, Celeste, etc.), and I'm not sure these packages are getting 
> updated properly right now... this is a more general problem.  (Some 
> way to broadcast desired changes to the package owners might be 
> interesting.)

May be the trick would be to have dummy classes for each removed 
packages (note that this implies that we have an object representing 
package which should not be that difficult and that we will have to 
have. The problem I see is that when a package changes and we do not 
know what are the classes of this package in the image then there is no 
way that we can
identify where the changes should go) and then we load 3.5 fixes then 
we collect the changes related to each package and republish it.

Now if we work only in 3.6 and do not care about removed stuff, we will 
create a lot of broken code. I have the impression that the easiest and 
safest solution would be to load **all** the removals in 3.6 (this 
means all the stuff you think should be in 3.6 full image) and always 
do the changes regarding this configuration, then the removal are 
removed. Because we are trying to do two things at the same times and 
we are too few.

So let us know what you think about that.
Stef
>
> - Doug
>
>