Re: re: TrueType font support and 3.6

  Hello,

# I'm on sqf list as well.

  Sorry for really slow response, and sloow work on cleaning up the
stuff!  I'm kind of embarrassed not finishing this up, but I have to
say that there are more stuff than I can handle...

> Right.  Assuming it's using (not just installing) the TT fonts that 
> slows things down on slower systems, we could incorporate the TT fonts 
> changes, but not actually change any of the default fonts to be TT fonts 
> for now.  (Maybe change a default font to be a TT font sometime in 3.7 
> if it's working really well.)

  One thing we can do to speed thing up a bit and reduce memory
consumption is to add new bb combination rule along the line of the
one by Arjen for his FT2 support.  If you guys agree to move to this
direction, I can start integrating his BB into the next version of
TTTextStyle package.

> (Hmm, I just tried "set font..." on some text in the middle 
> of the Welcome window and it appears that TT fonts are a bit buggy when 
> mixed with the regular strike fonts.  It's fine if I add some TT text at 
> the end, though.  Or we could add a small standalone demo window.  Or 
> just not have a demo. ;-) )

  This bug is known and fixed.  Stephane knows how to fix it:-)

> Anyway, I'd want to at least double-check with Yoshiki first to see if 
> he has any impending changes coming up before incorporating the TT 
> stuff.  (I'm cc-ing him on this message.)

  Ah, there going to be some changes, which should come first before
the stuff gets incorporated...

-- Yoshiki
From [email protected] Sat Jun 21 00:46:47 2003
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: (qmail 25705 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 00:46:46 -0000
Received: from mxout3.netvision.net.il (194.90.9.24)
  by mail.theinternetone.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 00:46:46 -0000
Received: from aSqueakSystem ([80.178.96.131]) by mxout3.netvision.net.il
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTPA id <[email protected]> for
 [email protected]; Sat,
 21 Jun 2003 03:46:41 +0300 (IDT)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:17:10 +0200
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Squeakfoundation]KCP & 3.6
To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <[email protected]>
Message-id: <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Celeste 2.0.5174
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
	<[email protected]>
List-Id: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <squeakfoundation.lists.squeakfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeakfoundation>
List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:46:47 -0000

In that case, and given Avi review, I'm assuming Tim is merely being
properly coy about approving stuff he's touched, and will approve it in
the next few days.

Would be nice if one of you guys can create the "simplified tutorial to
proper definition of new-style Pools", and post on the list/swiki so
people can do the right thing in the future.

Daniel

Andreas Raab <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Do the "somewhat larger" issues mean problems as soon as we insert the
> > DecPools, or changes when we convert the image?
> 
> The latter. The problems really come from either somewhat strange uses of
> pool dictionaries (e.g., lower-case strings as keys) or from uses where the
> pool is extended dynamically (TextConstants).
> 
> > if the second, does this mean it makes sense to insert the code, but
> > convert the rest of the image in 3.7, or do you think this would be
> > confusing?
> 
> I think it's perfectly reasonable and what I anticipated anyways. Even
> though the remaining pools "ought to be converted" there is no requirement
> for doing it in 3.6 - we've been living with them for so long and the places
> where we had an immediate need for fixing them are fixed.
> 
> Cheers,
>   - Andreas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
From [email protected] Sat Jun 21 00:46:47 2003
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: (qmail 25712 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 00:46:47 -0000
Received: from mxout3.netvision.net.il (194.90.9.24)
  by mail.theinternetone.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 00:46:47 -0000
Received: from aSqueakSystem ([80.178.96.131]) by mxout3.netvision.net.il
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
 with SMTPA id <[email protected]> for
 [email protected]; Sat,
 21 Jun 2003 03:46:42 +0300 (IDT)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:47:27 +0200
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]re: TrueType font support and 3.6
To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <[email protected]>
Message-id: <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Celeste 2.0.5174
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
cc: [email protected]
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
	<[email protected]>
List-Id: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <squeakfoundation.lists.squeakfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeakfoundation>
List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:46:47 -0000

I'll note again that last time the code was reviewed by Goran, Yoshiki
wanted to fix some things about it. A quicky partial review of v5 does
show some things that could use some cleanup:
 - at least one method clashes with MCP.
 - The single GrafPort method sends to super but implicitly returns
self.
 - Paragraph>>asForm does an "isKindOf: TTCFont"

So IMO, this code doesn't belong in Basic, yet. A thorough review and
patches to Yoshiki would probably help resolve this situation in the
fastest way possible.

Yoshiki, can you give us an update on the state of the fixes you wanted
to do?

Daniel

Doug Way <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andreas Raab wrote:
> 
> >Completely agree. 
> >
> >BTW, Tim, does *installing* or *using* the TT fonts slow your system down?
> >If the latter I would claim that that's almost normal - the TT fonts require
> >more expensive rendering and while a lot of this can (given time) be tweaked
> >some of it just can't be changed.
> >
> 
> Right.  Assuming it's using (not just installing) the TT fonts that 
> slows things down on slower systems, we could incorporate the TT fonts 
> changes, but not actually change any of the default fonts to be TT fonts 
> for now.  (Maybe change a default font to be a TT font sometime in 3.7 
> if it's working really well.)
> 
> We could change a bit of text in the Welcome window to the ComicSansMS 
> antialiased font for demonstration purposes, with a hint about how to 
> change your default font and how to load new TT fonts with the 
> FileList.  (Hmm, I just tried "set font..." on some text in the middle 
> of the Welcome window and it appears that TT fonts are a bit buggy when 
> mixed with the regular strike fonts.  It's fine if I add some TT text at 
> the end, though.  Or we could add a small standalone demo window.  Or 
> just not have a demo. ;-) )
> 
> Anyway, I'd want to at least double-check with Yoshiki first to see if 
> he has any impending changes coming up before incorporating the TT 
> stuff.  (I'm cc-ing him on this message.)
> 
> - Doug
> 
> 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [email protected] 
> >>[mailto:[email protected]] 
> >>On Behalf Of Craig Latta
> >>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:31 PM
> >>To: Tim Rowledge
> >>Cc: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
> >>Subject: [Squeakfoundation]re: TrueType font support and 3.6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>[TrueTypeTextStyle] works ok, looks beautiful but seems to slow down
> >>>my system quite a bit. We need profiling and improvements to make it
> >>>suitable for default usage - something I think very important.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>	It doesn't slow mine down, and it's not rediculously 
> >>faster than yours
> >>(mine's 500 MHz, yours is 200?)  If profiling reveals this to be
> >>something that only affects, e.g., old RiscOS machines, I'd prefer to
> >>release it and fix the problem later. This is very important. I would
> >>even be happy if we just released it without profiling, since 
> >>it's fine
> >>on all the Unix, win32, and MacOS machines I've tried it on.
> >>
> >>
> >>-C
> >>
> >>--
> >>Craig Latta
> >>http://netjam.org/resume
> >>[email protected]
> >>Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Squeakfoundation mailing list
> >>[email protected]
> >>http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Squeakfoundation mailing list
> >[email protected]
> >http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakfoundation mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
From [email protected] Sat Jun 21 01:06:05 2003
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: (qmail 3455 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 01:06:05 -0000
Received: from mail.gmx.net (213.165.64.20)
  by mail.theinternetone.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 01:06:05 -0000
Received: (qmail 11708 invoked by uid 65534); 21 Jun 2003 01:06:05 -0000
Received: from p508833C7.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO atlantis) (80.136.51.199)
  by mail.gmx.net (mp007) with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 03:06:05 +0200
From: "Andreas Raab" <[email protected]>
To: "'Discussing the Squeak Foundation'"
	<[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Squeakfoundation]re: TrueType font support and 3.6
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:06:02 +0200
Message-ID: <000b01c33791$48d8a8d0$8ef7fea9@atlantis>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
cc: [email protected]
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
	<[email protected]>
List-Id: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <squeakfoundation.lists.squeakfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeakfoundation>
List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:06:06 -0000

Daniel,

> A quicky partial review of v5 does
> show some things that could use some cleanup:
>  - at least one method clashes with MCP.
>  - The single GrafPort method sends to super but implicitly returns
> self.
>  - Paragraph>>asForm does an "isKindOf: TTCFont"
>=20
> So IMO, this code doesn't belong in Basic, yet.

Err ... excuse me, but the above issues sound exactly like the things =
one
would address in *beta* not in alpha. Requiring (for example) that there =
are
no conflicts with any other ongoing work is almost impossible - the
declarative pools have some conflicts too and I won't bother tracking =
all of
the yet-to-come KCP changes until I actually know them (as in: being
finalized and published).

Seriously confused,
  - Andreas