Future release process (was: 3.5 release timing)

Doug Way <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not really.  I'm not sure that the Visibility argument is that 
> compelling, though.  
No, no no - misunderstanding. These are not arguments I am giving for
making more releases! They are desirable properties of our process,
which are affected by releases, but which I think we can better improve
by other means.

> Okay, perhaps by Visibility you also mean the fact that a newbie's bug 
> report might get fixed and released into a stable version sooner with 
> frequent releases than it would have otherwise.
For a start, a newbies bug should not be irrelevant - "Already fixed in
the 3.7 alpha".

But I think it's even more important to focus on visibility for
non-newbies. When something is in beta/gamma stages, right now,
everything that people develop for the image basically stops getting
feedback, because nobody is trying to harvest it.

Even worse, even in alpha, harvesting is going too slowly, so that work
and feedback is often separated by months. This means people don't SEE
what they are doing. It's like driving with your eyes closed, based on
reports from the person in the other seat, except he's reading a book
most of the time.

Making release faster could bring this does from six months to two. What
we need, really, is for this to work in a framework of days or weeks.
Which means making things alot more distributed.

An official policy allows people to give themselves feedback. If the
policy specifies tools like SLint, they can even get some objective
feedback. And project groups like MCP and KCP allow people to get
feedback from a group of focused experts. Both are not tied too the
release cycle.

> In the meantime, I will try to outline a brief harvesting process (say, 
> tomorrow), at least, that we could debate very briefly and then use to 
> harvest things, by hand at first, and then use that process as a basis 
> for the tool.
I think we can speed up harvesting in a simple way. Specify these
"goodness criteria"-
- Has gone through indepedent review
- Has been independently tested
- Has been passed through SLint, with every finding inspected (and the
relevant ones fixed)
- Has a detailed documentation of the rationale for every change
- Is small (<10k)
These aren't absolute requirements. Instead, they determine priority.
The more of these properties you fix has, the sooner it'll happen. We
can do this by simply sorting the list accordingly.

Then, if people care about a specific fix, they'll review it, test it,
SLint it, document it, and make sure it is in small pieces. That will
surely improve speed up the bottleneck process of evaluation. Fixes that
don't recieve this attention, might not (yet) deserve ours.

Daniel
From [email protected] Thu Mar 06 03:07:50 2003
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: (qmail 14229 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2003 03:07:50 -0000
Received: from mxout3.netvision.net.il (194.90.9.24)
  by mail.theinternetone.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2003 03:07:50 -0000
Received: from [80.178.96.181] ([80.178.96.181]) by mxout3.netvision.net.il
 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.08 (built Dec  6 2002))
 with SMTPA id <[email protected]> for
 [email protected]; Thu,
 06 Mar 2003 05:07:50 +0200 (IST)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 05:06:45 +0300
From: Daniel Vainsencher <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]3.5 release timing (was Re: Outstanding 3.4
 bugs?)
To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <[email protected]>
Message-id: <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Celeste 2.0.5108
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
	<[email protected]>
List-Id: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <squeakfoundation.lists.squeakfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lnx-12.ams-2.theinternetone.net/pipermail/squeakfoundation>
List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 03:07:50 -0000

[about one quick fixes release]

Doug said:
> That does make some sense.  A "very good" release might be a good start 
> before getting down to splitting up the image and other work, as 
> opposed to a more average release.  A reference release of sorts.  And 
> good PR, I suppose.
> 
> It would delay the "getting down to splitting up the image" by at least 
> a month, though. 
People are posting "Remove <whatever>" packages, though slowly. I think
I can help people to speed up and focus this process independent of the
release schedule, as long as the fixes made do not break refactorings by
including too many things. So as long as the fixes release is focused on
the important stuff, I see no conflict.

When we start 3.6, we'll have a few more removals ready to go.

> And I'm not sure it's *really* that important.  So 
> I'm still on the fence, awaiting a few more opinions.
Yup, I'd like to hear more too, but keeping in mind that -

> But we do need to decide on the 3.5 release timing very soon...
 
Daniel
From [email protected] Thu Mar 06 07:48:49 2003
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: (qmail 3784 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2003 07:48:49 -0000
Received: from squeakland.org (65.104.119.41)
  by mail.theinternetone.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2003 07:48:49 -0000
Received: from acm.org (Brandx-IWC.interworld.net [206.124.230.238] (may be
	forged))
	by squeakland.org (8.12.8/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h268dMoI000827
	for <[email protected]>;
	Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:39:22 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:51:27 -0800
From: Michael Rueger <[email protected]>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US;
	rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------070401090902050504040209"
Subject: [Squeakfoundation]Squeakland fixes
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
	<[email protected]>
List-Id: Discussing the Squeak Foundation
 <squeakfoundation.lists.squeakfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lnx-12.ams-2.theinternetone.net/pipermail/squeakfoundation>
List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation>,
	<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 07:48:49 -0000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------070401090902050504040209
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Hi all,

attached are the form related fixes from the squeakland update stream. 
Especially nr 143 would be important in respect to the "black 
rectangles" problem.

Michael

--------------070401090902050504040209
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
 name="form-fixes-sqland.zip"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="form-fixes-sqland.zip"
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--------------070401090902050504040209--