Re: Viable lightweight Smalltalk based DB copasetic with 9.3

I found the reference I was not remembering.

It is the Aida [web] framework done by Janko Mivšek, the notable feature is
that the persistence is done without a specific database, but solely using
the serialization mechanisms of Smalltalk itself.

Depending on the number of records or similar metric, may be worth give a
look at the architecture of it.

HTH

--
Cesar Rabak


On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 9:02 AM Charles Monteiro <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Ok, thanks , I don’t want  to write Sql but I do want effectively embedded
> , so after enough arm wringing :) , maybe it’s time I bite the bullet and
> learn glorp, thanks
>
> Btw, I have used SQLite but with Java, I guess another reason I have now
> is that when I went to look for binaries for Win11/Arm I wasn’t able to at
> least readily find them
>
> Thanks , Charles
> On Oct 23, 2023 at 2:27 AM -0400, Karsten Kusche <[email protected]>, wrote:
>
> Hi Charles,
>
>
>
> I’d also suggest SQLite as database backend. It’s insane what quality and
> performance it provides and thanks to Glorp it’s super easy to use and you
> don’t need to fiddle much with SQL.
>
> Using some esoteric database backend just for the sake of not using SQL
> probably just makes you fight with code that you don’t want to
> understand/debug and no one out there could help you. Using Glorp may have
> you learn Glorp, but it’s basic idea is that of any ORM software. Glorp is
> pretty solid technology, too.
>
> The SQLite part is most likely the least problematic part and if you’re
> familiar with any other relational database system, just stick to it and
> switch to SQLite later. For most parts in Glorp it doesn’t matter what
> backend you’re using, as long as you’re not using stuff like Oracle’s PLSQL
> that’s not available on any other database system.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Karsten
>
>
>
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> *Von:* [email protected] <
> [email protected]> *Im Auftrag von* Joachim Tuchel
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2023 15:04
> *An:* [email protected]
> *Betreff:* Re: [vwnc] Viable lightweight Smalltalk based DB copasetic
> with 9.3
>
>
>
> Charles,
>
> I already answered along these lines - unfortunately hitting the wrong
> answer button (DM instead of mailing list).
>
> As an extra explanation, in case you didn't know: SQLite is different than
> other DBMS. It is just a DLL (or equivalent on other platforms). No
> installation package, no "server", no hassle. You simply ship the DLL with
> your product. The DB is just a simple file that can be copied, backed-up
> etc., just like any other file. So you can even ship some "initial DB"
> witht your product if you wish. SQLite is so lightweight that it is used on
> smartphones and IoT devices. So I think it absolutely is worth a look. Add
> to that that there are lots of external (gui and command line) tools that
> you can use to query the database.
>
> I think I am not the only one wondering what your reason for "no rdbms"
> might be. All other alternatives are rather "exotic" as compared to SQLite.
> In the end, you can even go so far as to switch to a "big DB" without code
> changes, should there ever be a need.
>
> BTW: I just released two small articles of a planned mini-series for
> SQLIte with Glorp and VAST platform - it should not be too far off for VW.
> Maybe you want to take a look:
>
> joachimtuchel.wordpress.com
>
> *Getting Started with SQLite, Glorp and VAST Platform – Pt. 1*
>
> VAST Platform ships with Support for SQLite, a very lightweight and easy
> to use SQL database. One very nice feature of it is that you can run it as
> a mere in-memory database. From time to time I fi…
>
> 🔗
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/2023/10/11/getting-started-with-sqlite-glorp-and-vast-platform-pt-1/__;!!DZ3fjg!63v1az3dhLWSpSyYReoRJI5QCgMdhANSwaS7HvrFmqvoYbPNl8i9IUiTD9DokqY1fEIztKBpqNGsx2yfX4TNqgpY4lMx$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/2023/10/11/getting-started-with-sqlite-glorp-and-vast-platform-pt-1/__;!!DZ3fjg!71_9zRWlLrYjn84Aa0VNO0ZtED9Q3zFp7GlrWZhh5c3UqdyDtN71dXVYqBqsAyITIz5MmjA3gpk3I_rF9meRWNFZd_nUDf4$>
>
> What's interesting is that the whole setup is a lot easier than I thought,
> so, tbh, I don't really know what else to write in the next part ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> Joachim
>
>
>
> Am 18.10.23 um 14:49 schrieb Thomas Sattler:
>
> SQLite definitely works with the latest versions of VW.  Charles'
> requirements implied that he does not want relational, but if he would
> relax that particular point, SQLite would fit all the others perfectly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 4:27 PM Cesar Rabak <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Your description seems to *almost* fit with Embarcadero's Interbase,
> however, I'm not sure if there's still a parcel for binding this DB in
> recent versions of VW.
>
>
>
> HTH
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 2:10 PM Charles Monteiro <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> lightweight, something that you would ship with your product , preferably
> that could run on Windows, Mac , Linux, not an RDMS, something that would
> not require the user to do any specific installation of the DB or have to
> do any maintenance of the DB. Effectively embedded but something that had
> some nice semantics i.e. not BOSS, does not have to be multi user , it
> could just be persisted in a file or set of local files , but not something
> that you would load entirely into memory, ideally something that would
> persist Smalltalk objects , to my recollection that's exactly what Omnibase
> did, although I actually think it was multi-user but it didn't have to be
> used as such
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 4:07 AM Nowak, Helge <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> What are your requirements with regards to the DB?
>
> What exactly do you mean by “lightweight?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Helge
>
>
>
>
> *Helge Nowak* Cincom Smalltalk Technical Account Manager
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> *Von:* [email protected] <
> [email protected]> *Im Auftrag von* Charles Monteiro
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 13. Oktober 2023 20:27
> *An:* [email protected]
> *Betreff:* [vwnc] Viable lightweight Smalltalk based DB copasetic with 9.3
>
>
>
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>
> So no "have you tried BOSS" pls :)
>
> I recall OmniBase for example but not sure if that's currently the best
> thing going or if it breaks in 9.3 . I don't want to use Mongo for this
> particular project and thus the request.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> --
>
> Charles A. Monteiro
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