Re: JNIPort - is there anyone willing to maintain it?
Benoit St-Jean <[email protected]> Thu, 25 Sep 2025 08:57:18 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.vwnc |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2OLB3zFMRMxpWVbHms380v7f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Any plan to release a newer/fixed/extended version to the Cincom Public Repository as well ? On 2025-09-25 07:21, Holger Kleinsorgen wrote: > Joachim , > > if there is no one else interested in maintaining the code, then I can > adopt it. The basic plan: > - Publish the VW code in Github > - Publish the Pharo code in Github (must check if Squeaksource or > SmalltalkHub contains the most recent code) > - Check if it runs with the most recent version of Pharo (no idea if I > would fix it if it doesn't) > - Move the documentation to Github > > We (the company I'm working for) have been using JNIPort for quite a > while (up to VW 9.4.1 and Java 17). > The VAST port and other ports must be maintained by other folks, though. > > Holger > > Am Do., 25. Sept. 2025 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Joachim Geidel > <[email protected]>: > > Dear Thomas, > > I definitely do not see the maintenance of JNIPort as enhancing > Cincom’s products. You wouldn’t consider writing an open source > application running on MS Windows or an open source library for > developers who are working on Windows being an „enhancement“ of > Windows, thus benefiting MS, or would you? > > While Cincom was so kind to including it as a contribution in the > VisualWorks distribution, it has also been available for Dolphin > Smalltalk, Pharo, and VASt in a long time. JNIPort has always been > developed completely independently from any of the companies > offering Smalltalk IDEs. > > JNIPort works on VW 8.3, as far as I know, so there’s no work to > be done at all for making it work for VWNC users. But even if VWNC > is no longer actively supported by Cincom, there may still be > Cincom customers who are interested in using JNIPort on one of the > more recent VisualWorks versions, and who could have an interest > in adapting it to that version. In such a case, a JNIPort user’s > contribution in the form of an update would be uploaded directly > to the Cincom public repository. I don’t see how this would mean > „a lot of time and effort“ for a potential maintainer of JNIPort > apart from updating some small parts of the JNIPort documentation. > > And then, there’s Pharo, which has an active community, and which > I suspect to have more active users now than Cincom Smalltalk. > Migrating JNIPort to Pharo 14 with some help from the Pharo > community shouldn’t be a lot of work. > > I am simply looking for someone willing to keep the strings > together and to prevent that JNIPort accidentally disappears, not > someone who invests a lot of time and effort in active > development. My ideas about the maintainer’s role: Someone wants > to use it, work has to be done to make it work, so they do it > themselves and tell the maintainer about it, who then updates the > docs. Google switches off Google Sites - the maintainer moves the > documentation to another place. And that’s more or less it, unless > the maintainer wants to have some fun with enhancing JNIPort for > some reason, just as I did when I ported it to VW and Pharo just > because I thought that might be interesting and fun (and it was). > > Joachim > >> Am 24.09.2025 um 19:31 schrieb Thomas Sattler <[email protected]>: >> >> Joachim, >> >> Cincom has basically abandoned the VWNC distribution. The >> "latest" version one can obtain without paying for a license is >> VW 8.3, which was released in 2017. >> >> it's hard to imagine people spending a lot of time and effort >> enhancing a system that old, when the vendor isn't committed to >> it. I'm sure Cincom is committed to the paying customers, but >> why should we help with that? >> >> --Tom >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 4:36 AM Joachim Geidel >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Dear fellow Smalltalkers, >> >> JNIPort is an interface from Smalltalk to the Java VM which >> was originally developed by Chris Uppal for Dolphin >> Smalltalk. It enables Smalltalk applications to use software >> written in Java seamlessly, locally and with low overhead, >> without resorting to network based interfaces like e.g. using >> microservices. Documentation is at >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/site/jniport/__;!!DZ3fjg!9JVpDqpxcqz6oMahTzP21-BTpfMxRHsi1HUS30Yd6Gm-8j4kRcgBOLmg6z342WonIj_duRg_d-WBWHHLFGX2ohB5doAnD8eNKbqwGQFahg$ >> . >> >> I have ported JNIPort to VisualWorks and Pharo, and Ben van >> Dijk, Adriaan van Os and Rolf van der Vleuten have ported it >> to VASt >> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vastgoodies.com/projects/JNIPort__;!!DZ3fjg!9JVpDqpxcqz6oMahTzP21-BTpfMxRHsi1HUS30Yd6Gm-8j4kRcgBOLmg6z342WonIj_duRg_d-WBWHHLFGX2ohB5doAnD8eNKbql_CqFlw$ >> ). >> >> The last time I really worked on JNIPort was in 2014, if I >> remember correctly. Now that I am retired and haven’t written >> a single line of Smalltalk code in five years, I am wondering >> if there is anybody willing to take over. >> >> I haven’t had any enquiries about JNIPort since 2020, so the >> task would be easy: >> - Take over ownership of the documentation site. >> - Possibly move the source code for the Pharo version to >> Gitlab (it is still in the ancient SmalltalkHub repository). >> - Optionally integrate any changes from JNIPort users, e.g. >> when they adapt it to more recent versions of VisualWorks or >> Pharo. There hasn't been any community input since 2017 (or >> was it 2019?). >> >> If nobody takes over, then JNIPort will be one of the many >> abandoned open source projects and disappear sooner or later >> when SmalltalkHub, the Cincom Public Repository and the >> documentation site are switched off. >> >> On the other hand, I do not know if there is actually anybody >> using JNIPort. If it has no users, there is no harm in its >> disappearance, and maintaining it would be a waste of time. >> >> Cheers >> Joachim Geidel >> > --------------2OLB3zFMRMxpWVbHms380v7f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p>Any plan to release a newer/fixed/extended version to the Cincom Public Repository as well ?</p> <p><br> </p> <p><br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2025-09-25 07:21, Holger Kleinsorgen wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAGhifExLQ1_Nhvh4mGoPQem=wRQnHR5L_t6as8=hFALcaHyJAA@mail.gmail.com"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> Joachim ,</div> <div><br> </div> <div>if there is no one else interested in maintaining the code, then I can adopt it. The basic plan:</div> <div>- Publish the VW code in Github</div> <div>- Publish the Pharo code in Github (must check if Squeaksource or SmalltalkHub contains the most recent code)</div> <div>- Check if it runs with the most recent version of Pharo (no idea if I would fix it if it doesn't)</div> <div> <div>- Move the documentation to Github</div> <div><br> </div> <div>We (the company I'm working for) have been using JNIPort for quite a while (up to VW 9.4.1 and Java 17).</div> <div>The VAST port and other ports must be maintained by other folks, though.</div> <br> </div> <div>Holger</div> </div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Do., 25. Sept. 2025 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Joachim Geidel <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email protected]</a>>:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div>Dear Thomas, <div><br> </div> <div>I definitely do not see the maintenance of JNIPort as enhancing Cincom’s products. You wouldn’t consider writing an open source application running on MS Windows or an open source library for developers who are working on Windows being an „enhancement“ of Windows, thus benefiting MS, or would you?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>While Cincom was so kind to including it as a contribution in the VisualWorks distribution, it has also been available for Dolphin Smalltalk, Pharo, and VASt in a long time. JNIPort has always been developed completely independently from any of the companies offering Smalltalk IDEs.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>JNIPort works on VW 8.3, as far as I know, so there’s no work to be done at all for making it work for VWNC users. But even if VWNC is no longer actively supported by Cincom, there may still be Cincom customers who are interested in using JNIPort on one of the more recent VisualWorks versions, and who could have an interest in adapting it to that version. In such a case, a JNIPort user’s contribution in the form of an update would be uploaded directly to the Cincom public repository. I don’t see how this would mean „a lot of time and effort“ for a potential maintainer of JNIPort apart from updating some small parts of the JNIPort documentation. </div> <div><br> </div> <div>And then, there’s Pharo, which has an active community, and which I suspect to have more active users now than Cincom Smalltalk. Migrating JNIPort to Pharo 14 with some help from the Pharo community shouldn’t be a lot of work.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I am simply looking for someone willing to keep the strings together and to prevent that JNIPort accidentally disappears, not someone who invests a lot of time and effort in active development. My ideas about the maintainer’s role: Someone wants to use it, work has to be done to make it work, so they do it themselves and tell the maintainer about it, who then updates the docs. Google switches off Google Sites - the maintainer moves the documentation to another place. And that’s more or less it, unless the maintainer wants to have some fun with enhancing JNIPort for some reason, just as I did when I ported it to VW and Pharo just because I thought that might be interesting and fun (and it was).</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Joachim</div> <div> <div><br> <blockquote type="cite"> <div>Am 24.09.2025 um 19:31 schrieb Thomas Sattler <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email protected]</a>>:</div> <br> <div> <div dir="ltr">Joachim, <div><br> </div> <div>Cincom has basically abandoned the VWNC distribution. The "latest" version one can obtain without paying for a license is VW 8.3, which was released in 2017.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>it's hard to imagine people spending a lot of time and effort enhancing a system that old, when the vendor isn't committed to it. I'm sure Cincom is committed to the paying customers, but why should we help with that?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>--Tom</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> </div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 4:36 AM Joachim Geidel <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear fellow Smalltalkers,<br> <br> JNIPort is an interface from Smalltalk to the Java VM which was originally developed by Chris Uppal for Dolphin Smalltalk. It enables Smalltalk applications to use software written in Java seamlessly, locally and with low overhead, without resorting to network based interfaces like e.g. using microservices. Documentation is at <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/site/jniport/__;!!DZ3fjg!9JVpDqpxcqz6oMahTzP21-BTpfMxRHsi1HUS30Yd6Gm-8j4kRcgBOLmg6z342WonIj_duRg_d-WBWHHLFGX2ohB5doAnD8eNKbqwGQFahg$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/site/jniport/__;!!DZ3fjg!9JVpDqpxcqz6oMahTzP21-BTpfMxRHsi1HUS30Yd6Gm-8j4kRcgBOLmg6z342WonIj_duRg_d-WBWHHLFGX2ohB5doAnD8eNKbqwGQFahg$</a> .<br> <br> I have ported JNIPort to VisualWorks and Pharo, and Ben van Dijk, Adriaan van Os and Rolf van der Vleuten have ported it to VASt (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vastgoodies.com/projects/JNIPort__;!!DZ3fjg!9JVpDqpxcqz6oMahTzP21-BTpfMxRHsi1HUS30Yd6Gm-8j4kRcgBOLmg6z342WonIj_duRg_d-WBWHHLFGX2ohB5doAnD8eNKbql_CqFlw$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vastgoodies.com/projects/JNIPort__;!!DZ3fjg!9JVpDqpxcqz6oMahTzP21-BTpfMxRHsi1HUS30Yd6Gm-8j4kRcgBOLmg6z342WonIj_duRg_d-WBWHHLFGX2ohB5doAnD8eNKbql_CqFlw$</a> ).<br> <br> The last time I really worked on JNIPort was in 2014, if I remember correctly. Now that I am retired and haven’t written a single line of Smalltalk code in five years, I am wondering if there is anybody willing to take over.<br> <br> I haven’t had any enquiries about JNIPort since 2020, so the task would be easy:<br> - Take over ownership of the documentation site.<br> - Possibly move the source code for the Pharo version to Gitlab (it is still in the ancient SmalltalkHub repository).<br> - Optionally integrate any changes from JNIPort users, e.g. when they adapt it to more recent versions of VisualWorks or Pharo. There hasn't been any community input since 2017 (or was it 2019?).<br> <br> If nobody takes over, then JNIPort will be one of the many abandoned open source projects and disappear sooner or later when SmalltalkHub, the Cincom Public Repository and the documentation site are switched off.<br> <br> On the other hand, I do not know if there is actually anybody using JNIPort. If it has no users, there is no harm in its disappearance, and maintaining it would be a waste of time.<br> <br> Cheers<br> Joachim Geidel</blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html> --------------2OLB3zFMRMxpWVbHms380v7f--