Re: [EXT] Re: Microsoft UI Automation in VisualWorks?

Cesar Rabak <[email protected]> Fri, 21 Nov 2025 19:43:02 -0300
Newsgroups gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.vwnc
Message-ID <CAKrF98m_5v4ZW_3b6qLJT-GZ0x9p=8iwMrJa2fpfgfocj-7=UQ@mail.gmail.com> 
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If the description on the Microsoft site can be understood in the context
of their technology, it seems the only way VW could get at this
functionality would be have Cincom to include the Windows code that would
interact with the cited DLLs (UIAutomationCore.dll and Oleacc.dll) and then
expose the API via Smalltalk classes.

If the requirements for being able to be "automated" by this protocol and
Cincom does not provide a path, the sole remedy would be to have a shim
written in Windows supporting languages which would call the already built
Smalltalk application.

Out of these two scenarios I don't see a solution with present Smalltalk
technology.

my 0.019999...

--
Cesar Rabak


On Fri, Nov 21, 2025 at 3:18=E2=80=AFAM Mark Plas <[email protected]>=
 wrote:

> Hi Reinout,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
>
>
> The problem indeed is that the message requires a result to be returned.
> You cannot return results to windows messages from within Smalltalk (The
> window procedure has already long returned before that happens, and the
> Smalltalk events are just copies of the original event and are processed
> asynchronously). You need to be able to intercept the window procedure
> itself, but that doesn=E2=80=99t work.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, I did some C-debugging and it=E2=80=99s clear that handl=
ing the
> messages from within Smalltalk cannot work. There are deadlocks because of
> the way the VM handles Windows events.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> Mark Plas
> Product Engineer
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mediagenix.tv__;!!DZ3fjg!8tQKgDYI5=
91Iefvn1as09D6UVw4UbBUN08KBLX4mft0OC2_t5YHB8sOkhI7oI4GkevOjyVaX2hHOoH4xMbxO=
fIE5LlRYf1b0rpo$=20
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UlJDtp2aN7j1EtKN9wMkM$>
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> This e-mail and any files attached to it are confidential and intended
> only for the use of the individuals or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
> immediately.
>
> *From:* [email protected] <
> [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Reinout Heeck
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2025 5:30 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [EXT] Re: [vwnc] Microsoft UI Automation in VisualWorks?
>
>
>
> U ontvangt niet vaak e-mail van [email protected]. Ontdek waarom dit
> belangrijk is
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentificatio=
n__;!!DZ3fjg!4oTGo9bUq1dxJ_OKzZmp-bWvoc1ZB4xjdrLZW0UVyfyqd-Qm4zUKg2OBV3yXLg=
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>
> *Warning:* This is an external email. Do not click on links or open
> attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> Hey Mark,
>
> WM_GETOBJECT =3D 0x003D
>
> Have a look at InputState >> send:eventUnknown: and see if you are lucky
> and can catch a 16r3D there?
>
>
>
> Not sure how to return the com interface from there though...
>
> -Reinout
>
>
>
> On 19/11/2025 12:23, Mark Plas wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever implemented * Microsoft* UI Automation in VisualWorks?
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win=
32/winauto/entry-uiauto-win32__;!!DZ3fjg!8tQKgDYI591Iefvn1as09D6UVw4UbBUN08=
KBLX4mft0OC2_t5YHB8sOkhI7oI4GkevOjyVaX2hHOoH4xMbxOfIE5LlRYZWobwSM$=20
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win=
32/winauto/entry-uiauto-win32__;!!DZ3fjg!_aQGOK7EA64lDd39rsL3YgMyNrjpz-h71l=
MBNG-HmSuaCpXFN4HqRsEhPwgCPsx8cr6dxMreJnNEF_VebzM95XCf$>
>
>
>
> This is becoming a requirement for us, and I wanted to know if anyone has
> ever done this before.
>
>
>
> Alternatively, does anyone know how to intercept a windows message and
> return a result for it from within VisualWorks?
>
>
>
> As a small experiment, I tried to intercept the WM_GETOBJECT message as
> described here:
>
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win=
32/winauto/wm-getobject__;!!DZ3fjg!8tQKgDYI591Iefvn1as09D6UVw4UbBUN08KBLX4m=
ft0OC2_t5YHB8sOkhI7oI4GkevOjyVaX2hHOoH4xMbxOfIE5LlRY60IOSyk$=20
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win=
32/winauto/wm-getobject__;!!DZ3fjg!_aQGOK7EA64lDd39rsL3YgMyNrjpz-h71lMBNG-H=
mSuaCpXFN4HqRsEhPwgCPsx8cr6dxMreJnNEF_Veb6sI9g7W$>
>
>
>
> In order to do this from within Smalltalk, I tried to replace the window
> procedure of a window, with a callback like this:
>
>
>
>                 | callback old |
>
>                 old :=3D self getWindowLong: aWindow windowHandle nIndex:=
 -4.
>
>                 callback :=3D CCallback
>
>                                                                 do: [:hwnd
> :uMsg :wParam :lParam | self CallWindowProcWWith: old with: hwnd with: uM=
sg
> with: wParam with: lParam]
>
>                                                                 ofType:
> self WNDPROC pointerType.
>
>                 self setWindowLongPtr: aWindow windowHandle nIndex: -4
> dwNewLong: callback.
>
>                 self halt
>
>
>
> In the callback I just call the old window procedure, so the window should
> just behave as if nothing was changed.
>
>
>
> However, this doesn=E2=80=99t really work. As long as I only move the mou=
se over a
> window it seems to work, but as soon as I click on a window VisualWorks
> stops handling messages and the application needs to be killed.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know how to do this?
>
>
>
> In summary:
>
>    1. Has anyone implemented Microsoft UI Automation in VisualWorks?
>    2. Does anyone know how to intercept windows messages and return a
>    result for them from within VisualWorks Smalltalk code?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mark
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">If the description on the Microsoft site can be understood=
 in the context of their technology, it seems the only way VW could get at =
this functionality would be have Cincom to include the Windows code that wo=
uld interact with the cited DLLs (<span style=3D"color:rgb(22,22,22);font-f=
amily:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Variable Text&quot;,-apple-system=
,BlinkMacSystemFont,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:14px">UIAutomationCore.dll</span>=C2=A0and=C2=A0<span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(22,22,22);font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Variable T=
ext&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helve=
tica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Oleacc.dll</span>) and then expose th=
e API via Smalltalk classes.<div><br></div><div>If the requirements for bei=
ng able to be &quot;automated&quot; by this protocol and Cincom does not pr=
ovide a path, the sole remedy would be to have a shim written in Windows su=
pporting languages which would call the already built Smalltalk application=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Out of these two scenarios I don&#39;t see a sol=
ution with present Smalltalk technology.</div><div><br></div><div>my 0.0199=
99...</div><div><br></div><div>--</div><div>Cesar Rabak</div><div><br></div=
></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 21, 2025 at 3:18=E2=80=AFAM Mark Plas &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div cl=
ass=3D"msg8016917717850971726">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"m_8016917717850971726WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Hi Reinout,<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks for the reply.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">The problem indeed is=
 that the message requires a result to be returned. You cannot return resul=
ts to windows messages from within Smalltalk (The window procedure has alre=
ady long returned before that happens,
 and the Smalltalk events are just copies of the original event and are pro=
cessed asynchronously). You need to be able to intercept the window procedu=
re itself, but that doesn=E2=80=99t work.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">In the meantime, I di=
d some C-debugging and it=E2=80=99s clear that handling the messages from w=
ithin Smalltalk cannot work. There are deadlocks because of the way the VM =
handles Windows events.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Mark<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"600" style=
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if">
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        <tr>
            <td style=3D"padding-top:10px;padding-left:17px">
                <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" wid=
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 style=3D"padding-top:20px;word-break:normal;font-family:Poppins,&quot;Cent=
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line-height:18px;text-align:left;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Mar=
k Plas</td>
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                            <td align=3D"left" valign=3D"top" width=3D"600"=
 style=3D"word-break:normal;font-family:Poppins,&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,=
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:300;line-height:18px;=
text-align:left;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Product Engineer</td=
>
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break:normal;font-family:Poppins,&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,Helvetica,Arial=
,sans-serif;font-size:10px;font-weight:300;line-height:14px;text-align:left=
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<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
.edu" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Reinout Heeck<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 19, 2025 5:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXT] Re: [vwnc] Microsoft UI Automation in VisualWorks?<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" align=3D"left" widt=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(33,33,33)">U ontvangt niet vaak e-mail van
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>.=
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<b><span style=3D"color:red">Warning:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"=
> This is an external email. Do not click on links or open attachments unle=
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an></p>
<div>
<p>Hey Mark,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>WM_GETOBJECT =3D 0x003D<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Have a look at InputState &gt;&gt; send:eventUnknown: and see if you are=
 lucky and can catch a 16r3D there?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Not sure how to return the com interface from there though...<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p>-Reinout<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 19/11/2025 12:23, Mark Plas wrote:<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Hi all,</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Has anyone ever imple=
mented <b>
Microsoft</b> UI Automation in VisualWorks?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:36pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11pt"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/learn.microsoft.com/en-=
us/windows/win32/winauto/entry-uiauto-win32__;!!DZ3fjg!_aQGOK7EA64lDd39rsL3=
YgMyNrjpz-h71lMBNG-HmSuaCpXFN4HqRsEhPwgCPsx8cr6dxMreJnNEF_VebzM95XCf$" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/winauto/entry=
-uiauto-win32</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This is becoming a re=
quirement for us, and I wanted to know if anyone has ever done this before.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Alternatively, does a=
nyone know how to intercept a windows message and return a result for it fr=
om within VisualWorks?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">As a small experiment=
, I tried to intercept the WM_GETOBJECT message as described here:</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/=
win32/winauto/wm-getobject__;!!DZ3fjg!_aQGOK7EA64lDd39rsL3YgMyNrjpz-h71lMBN=
G-HmSuaCpXFN4HqRsEhPwgCPsx8cr6dxMreJnNEF_Veb6sI9g7W$" target=3D"_blank">
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/winauto/wm-getobject</a></s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">In order to do this f=
rom within Smalltalk, I tried to replace the window procedure of a window, =
with a callback like this:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | cal=
lback old |</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 old :=
=3D self getWindowLong: aWindow windowHandle nIndex: -4.</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 callb=
ack :=3D CCallback</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 do: [:hwnd :uMsg =
:wParam :lParam | self CallWindowProcWWith: old with: hwnd with: uMsg with:=
 wParam with: lParam]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ofType: self WNDP=
ROC pointerType.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 self =
setWindowLongPtr: aWindow windowHandle nIndex: -4 dwNewLong: callback.</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 self =
halt</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">In the callback I jus=
t call the old window procedure, so the window should just behave as if not=
hing was changed.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">However, this doesn=
=E2=80=99t really work. As long as I only move the mouse over a window it s=
eems to work, but as soon as I click on a window VisualWorks stops handling=
 messages and the application needs to be killed.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Does anyone know how =
to do this?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">In summary:</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"m_8016917717850971726MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0c=
m"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Has anyone implemented Microsoft UI Autom=
ation in VisualWorks?</span><u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"m_8016917717850=
971726MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11pt">Does anyone know how to intercept windows messages and return a resul=
t for them from within VisualWorks Smalltalk code?</span><u></u><u></u></li=
></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks in advance,</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Mark</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</div></blockquote></div>

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