Re: Fox toolkit future?

Hi,

So Linus Torvalds and his Linux project is wrong, then?

What about the PHP, Python, and countless other large projects?

Microsoft saw at least some value in purchasing GitHub after all, yeah?

Would you want be willing to open an issue and tell them that their
contributors never went to college?

What about Git itself, since Linus created it especially FOR Linux, since
he had that feud with Perforce?

Have a great weekend! :D
Robert

On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 6:06 PM Roland Hughes via Foxgui-users <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Good Afternoon Robert,
>
> "github is where hackers go" especially those who never went to college.
> Agile is not Software Engineering nor does it exist in the same galaxy as
> Software Engineering.
>
> But . . . you are welcome to your opinion, I must respectfully disagree.
>
> I guess it really boils down to "who" the creator of this project wants to
> attract to assist with development.
>
> Nobody? then status quo is fine I can totally understand wanting one
> single vision for a project. It just won't live on when you hit life's
> great checkout counter.
>
> Developers who went to college for software development and have a lot of
> years? SourceForge
>
> Kids writing their first programs after glancing at a tutorial? GitHub or
> Gitlab
>
> Yes, there are a token few old timers going to the Git world, but when you
> look at the majority of "eyes" going there it is green developers without
> college educations for software development. Most have less than two years
> under their belt and are "eager to prove themselves." Everybody gotta start
> somewhere, but adding green developers to any project creates a serious
> hand holding burden.
>
> I assume the creator of this library has an occupation requiring a not
> insignificant amount of their time so they can afford to both eat and live
> indoors. I also assume that this UI library has been released and
> maintained out of the goodness of their heart and some personal need for it
> that they have.
>
> Given both of those assumptions I can totally understand if they don't
> want to bring in other developers or park the source in an on-line version
> control system.
>
> --
>
> Since when can you not fork a project on SourceForge? I did it recently
> with Scintilla.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/csscintilla/
>
> There is an ocean of dead projects on github too. Just open the Brave
> browser and search
>
> dead github projects
>
> then scroll through the seemingly endless pages of "project dead?"
> questions about projects that haven't been updated in years.
>
> Umm, you can see your forks too
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/scintilla/code/ci/default/tree/
>
> There are 33 forks of Scintilla showing in the Mercurial page for that
> project.
>
> XML Copy Editor has 4 forks according to the code page.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/xml-copy-editor/code/ci/master/tree/
>
> they are here
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/xml-copy-editor/code/forks/
>
> At any rate, there are an increasing number of binary only "projects" on
> SourceForge as of late. I do find that annoying.
>
> No, you didn't sound grip-y at all. Hopefully I don't either. It is Friday
> and I still have stuff to get done, but I don't mean to sound grip-y or
> up-ity. Just been on too many paid projects that pulled "talent" in from
> Github. We did __not__ get the A-Team, B-Team, or C-Team.
> On 6/23/23 16:00, Robert Butler wrote:
>
> Good afternoon all,
>
> I respectfully disagree with "*github is where hackers go*" -- github or
> even gitlab have MARKEDLY better-- day and night-- support for issue
> tracking, CI, even basic usability issues such as front-end design.
>
> Github is where the majority of eyeballs are, like it or not. Sourceforge
> has become more of a niche hobbyist site. There's dozens of dead projects
> on sourceforge. And if you want to take up a fork of a project, just go and
> fork it. You can't do that on SourceForge. Sure it has legacy and
> significance as being the forebearer of open source project hosting, but
> very few people use it, compared to sites like github.
>
> That being said, I'm 100% NOT advocating for migrating to github. Even
> self-hosting gitlab would be a much better improvement over the confusing
> UI/UX that are project pages.
>
> And if you want to assume a site on Sourceforge? You have to get approval.
> You COULD go and just clone the code, but it's much extra unnecessary
> effort. Besides you can't see a list of forks which others have which
> perhaps improve upon your own. You could even use Bitbucket if you want a
> professionally run outfit.
>
> Just my two cents.
> Apologies if this sounded gripe-y, I didn't mean for it to.
>
> Thank you!
> Robert
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 4:46 PM Roland Hughes via Foxgui-users <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> 1) Personally I would recommend SourceForge to host. The Git family of
>> sites is where hackers go. If you want to be serious for a niche you use
>> SourceForge. This is where Scintilla and many other serious projects get
>> hosted. Some even choose to use Mercurial on there so only professionally
>> trained developers can assist, but that is a different conversation.
>>
>> 3) CMake. This is what CopperSpice moved to years ago along with many
>> other products/projects. Qt currently has a very crippled move towards it.
>> They might not even succeed.
>>
>> 2) Please forgive me if this next is misinformation due to my not having
>> looked at the project for a while, but here is what I personally believe
>> should be in a new stable release, perhaps 2.0
>>
>> * Full Wayland/Westin native, not via the built in X11 stuff that is
>> going away.
>>
>> * IMX8 support (NXP nuked all X11 support here) IMX6 and lower numbers
>> still have X11 support
>>
>> * efficient line and bar graph classes. By efficient I mean the data
>> store can be much larger than what is displayed yet the class quickly
>> graphs what can be displayed. Also has concept of a "live" graph where, for
>> bar/stack graph the bars move up and down based on currently assigned value
>> and for line (or circle) datapoints get added to the end. In case of line
>> some datapoints will eventually fall off the beginning so the "live" data
>> can still be graphed. For the line "live" concept, think of a heart monitor
>> like this
>>
>>
>> https://codialist.de/sites/default/files/styles/col_12_s/public/2020-04/programmierung_user_interface-legacy_code.png?itok=udKd7Olg
>>
>> or this
>>
>>
>> https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2019/05/Boston-UX-Device-Image-credit-Boston-UX-e1556706990389.png
>>
>> * Themes - I know the "Approach" manifest champions "Identical looks" but
>> we really need a break from the Windows 95/Motif look and feel. Don't get
>> me wrong, it's functional, but even in the medical device embedded systems
>> market we are getting pushed to create UI that look like these:
>>
>>
>> https://camo.githubusercontent.com/f0fdf84e89f010fcfba190f1a327e0f86d15d24f62006bf69ddc21e126d60cc2/68747470733a2f2f63796366692e6769746875622e696f2f6173736574732f696d672f656c656d656e74732f70686f746f6e5f73616d706c65722e6a7067
>>
>> I actually helped create this device, we had to use Qt 4.8 OpenSource
>>
>> https://image.tigermedical.com/Products/LargeImages/WEL71XX-B-.jpg
>>
>> Everything is a custom widget. If you look at the screen shots in the
>> user manual for the Connex Spot Monitor, that UI is a thing of beauty. All
>> without a GPU
>>
>>
>> https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/04/03/32/01/360_F_403320195_XA6SovF6KtnAzOCUjNUuVc5Q4JZLbrwz.webp
>>
>> I actually worked on this device
>>
>> https://www.kneevoice.com
>>
>> and we had to use Elements UI because we couldn't figure out in a
>> reasonable amount of time how to make an interface that looked like that
>> using Fox. Trust me, I was the one person finding and evaluating which
>> OpenSource GUI toolkit to use. In the FDA regulated world being able to run
>> static source analysis on your entire code base is a big win, especially if
>> you can lock that code down somewhere.
>>
>> We used to get away with sucky UI that looked like this
>>
>>
>> https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21543719/ows_155318959567868.jpg
>>
>> but not anymore.
>>
>> Just my 0.0002 cents
>> On 6/23/23 14:02, Devin Smith wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jeroen,
>>
>> Partially this message is based on the recent question that Pablo Alvarez
>> Lopez asked about new stable versions of the toolkit but there are some
>> other questions that I (and possibly others) have.
>>
>> 1. What are your plans with moving forward with some public git
>> repository? Obviously there are Github and Gitlab but you're also more than
>> welcome to host a git repo directly on fox-toolkit.org if you'd feel
>> more comfortable with that. I really think this could help with further
>> adoption and even new feature development. Both Github and Gitlab also
>> offer CI as well.
>>
>> 2. The stable version (1.6.57) was released in 2018 and many enhancements
>> have been made in the 1.7.x series. It would be a great idea to release a
>> 1.8.x stable version. What are your thoughts on a new stable release?
>>
>> 3. How about moving away from GNU autotools? Moving to CMake or Meson (or
>> something else?) may relieve you of having to maintain Visual Studio
>> solution files. There are already unofficial versions of the toolkit using
>> different build systems.
>>
>> Making the move to a public Git and/or releasing a new stable version may
>> drive the project further forward and offer a chance for new contributors
>> to participate with FOX as well. Not doing these things may harm the
>> reputation of the project and indicate that it is forever a "legacy"
>> project. Many of us enjoy using this toolkit and see advantages of
>> continuing to use it over more popular toolkits.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Devin Smith
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foxgui-users mailing [email protected]://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foxgui-users
>>
>> --
>> Roland Hughes, President
>> Logikal Solutions
>> (630)-205-1593
>> http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.comhttp://www.infiniteexposure.nethttp://www.johnsmith-book.comhttp://www.logikalblog.comhttp://www.interestingauthors.com/blog
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> *-*
> Robert Butler
> *r-butler.net <http://r-butler.net>*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foxgui-users mailing [email protected]://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foxgui-users
>
> --
> Roland Hughes, President
> Logikal Solutions
> (630)-205-1593
> http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.comhttp://www.infiniteexposure.nethttp://www.johnsmith-book.comhttp://www.logikalblog.comhttp://www.interestingauthors.com/blog
>
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>

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