Debian Packaging [was: Re: SimpleAgenda 0.48]

On 5/12/26 09:59, Joseph Maloney wrote:
> For me the layout Debian uses is a total no-op.  But I know this is a co=
mmon thing beyond Debian and where they are set in their ways so am I.  I =
have considered external packaging.
Depending from which angle one is looking at it, the layout used in=20
Debian for the GNUstep installations is either a mess or a blessing.

It is probably a complete mess as seen from a pure GNUstep angle, and=20
this is probably a fair assessment from this perspective.

But then again, when seen from the perspective of the system designed by=
=20
and for Debian it is a blessing to have GNUstep included alongside other=
=20
desktop options because it gives an umatched visibility to GNUstep for=20
interested Debian users who don't need to compile it on their own to be=20
able to have a look. This is an absolutely good thing as it shows that=20
GNUstep is alive and growing. And this is the main reason why it is=20
included in the wmlive distribution despite the shortcomings of the=20
packages distributed by Debian.

Nonetheless, in context of wmlive, i was doubting if it wouldn't=20
actually be doing a disservice to GNUstep by including the Debian=20
package variants.

The GNUstep packages as currently distributed by Debian are not=20
supporting libobjc2 nor ARC, and quite a few users/developers have=20
already complained about this lack with wmlive because their software=20
requires these features. Unfortunately, i am not in the position to=20
recompile all the Debian GNUstep components with these features on my=20
own as i lack the specific expertise and understanding required to do=20
the same.
I am not a programmer and my possibilities for contributions are limited=
=20
to sysadmin level activities such as building and providing the=20
live-build based wmlive ISO images, mostly recombining what is already=20
readily available.

In fact, i personally think that Debian is unintentionally rather doing=20
a disservice to GNUstep by not already providing libobjc2 based GNUstep=20
packages instead of the current offerings. This is something that should=
=20
have been done already since years.
But just like for the GNUstep project itself, the amount of sufficiently=
=20
capable package maintainers is limited, and the few who are taking the=20
burden of the work can't be expected to autoexploit themselves much more=
=20
than they already do. Just as everybody else, these people only have 24=20
hours a day at their disposal, and need to juggle their Debian=20
activities with the real life of any adult, like earning money, care for=
=20
their family, and so on.

Said that, there appear to be initiatives underway in Debian to take=20
care of the libobjc2/ARC hurdle, but it is currently unclear what the=20
actual status of concrete activities is. For this, please refer to=20
https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/pkg-gnustep-maintainers/2025-Jan=
uary/006241.html=20
from January 2025, which offers a glimmer of hope, albeit without any=20
visible results so far. I guess a helping hand would be very well received=
.

For my own project https://wmlive.sourceforge.net the inclusion of=20
GNUstep components is optional and, as used to be the case in prior=20
years, the absence of them wouldn't make any real difference for its=20
usefulness. While it does include a wide range of GNUstep components it=20
doesn't aim at being a GNUstep centric distribution.
The main idiosyncratic objective of wmlive is to provide a mostly=20
complete Debian system aimed at competent system administrators=20
requiring a convenient tool box of utilities, and to have the Window=20
Maker X11 window manager as its primary GUI. It is not aimed at newbie=20
Linux users who would be much better served with any other of the more=20
popular Linux distributions. And it doesn't care about Wayland either.

Hopefully, it should be clear that the availablilty of GNUstep packages=20
within the Debian context is very valuable for offering a show case for=20
GNUstep. The way it currently is, and as unsatisfying as it might appear=
=20
when seen from other vantage points, it does provide visibility for=20
GNUstep. And that certainly is a very good thing.

Thanks to all for your wonderful work!

Regards,
P.Seelig

https://fosstodon.org/@wmlive | https://wmlive.sourceforge.net