Re: IMPORTANT: Migrating away from mailing list

RenĂ© Dudfield <[email protected]> Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:16:16 +0200
Newsgroups gmane.comp.lib.sdl
Message-ID <CAEiAHjJnehP2B17Jpg6_zaE=7ssAr7nU=gh8mNgqQ1O6OOvgzg@mail.gmail.com>
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Hello,

on the issue of spam(and back scattering)... I think I 'solved' it for the
pygame.org website(so far). Using a combination of rate limiting, rbl spam
lists, better email validation, web application firewall, moderation tools,
and spam classification. All that stuff is open source, and if you're
interested I can answer any questions about it or the techniques.


best regards,


On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Ryan C. Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> tl;dr: We're going to try to move the mailing list and web forums to a new
> piece of software. Please go to https://discourse.libsdl.org/ and claim
> your account. You can still use it as a mailing list or a web forum. This
> list will (probably) be going away soon.
>
>
> So this is an experiment with Discourse (https://discourse.org/), to see
> if we can solve our mailing list and forum woes:
>
> Problems we currently have:
> - The forum software is wildly out of date, and couldn't be upgraded
> without losing the email bridge. Upgrading the software breaks a
> fundamental feature we rely on, not upgrading it is a massive security
> risk. We tried--and failed--to move the web server to PHP7; the forums
> needed massive work to just run at all. Serious problems, like not being
> able to register an account or post a reply, were failing silently, so we
> could never be sure if we ever really had fixed it up completely. For now
> we have dropped the web server back to PHP5, but being trapped on old
> versions of basic software to support old versions of custom software is
> doubly bad.
> - The spammers on the forums were brutal; they couldn't actually post
> because we had to approve the accounts, but they'd just flood our SMTP
> server with backscatter trying to make thousands of accounts, all day long.
> - We have to manually approve forum accounts in the first place.  :/
> - The mailing list was unreliable, and would lose mail, lose the archives,
> etc. This was largely a problem with the list provider and not mailing
> lists in general, but migrating somewhere more reliable was non-trivial, so
> changing direction entirely was a reasonable option if we had to do that.
> - The glue that bridges between the mailing list and the forums was not
> great in general.
>
>
> As I see it, these are the primary benefits of Discourse for us:
> - It runs on our server.
> - Is well-maintained and constantly improving open source, concerned with
> what modern Internet communication looks like (silly things like Emoji and
> Gravatar, really important things like Unicode and REST APIs and
> downloadable archives of your posts, etc).
> - Is one central place where all communications happen.
> - If you like the mailing list, you can use it exclusively through email.
> - If you like the web forums, you can use it exclusively through a web
> browser.
> - If you want to use it through the web interface and occasionally shoot
> off a quick reply by email, you can do that too.
> - The web interface looks modern and responsive, with all that AJAX-y
> goodness. It runs well and looks good on mobile devices, too.
> - It has all our email archives imported! After a lot of manual cleanup
> and one-off perl scripts, all the existing mailing list content, all the
> way back to _1998_ has been turned into Discourse topics with threading
> intact. More than 20,000 topics, more than 100,000 posts!
> - It has all the old forum posts imported too, thanks to a lot of manual
> cleanup and one-off perl (and PHP!) scripts.
> - It has all the users (more than 2000!) imported. We took efforts to try
> to merge people that posted from different email addresses over the years
> into one account, using the latest email address we saw, and deal with
> people that used both the forums and mailing list interchangeably over the
> years.
> - An actual search function that works.
> - Lots of bells and whistles and control over everything...not just as an
> administrator, but as a user, so you get the experience just how you like
> it.
>
>
> So we're going to give it a little time and see if we can turn off the
> existing list and forums. So that we don't end up with two separate
> communities, we're going to make this decision pretty quickly. As such, if
> you have problems (including a generic "I hate this"), please speak up
> loudly as soon as possible.
>
> To get started: Go to https://discourse.libsdl.org/
>
> If you sign up for an account and it thinks your email is already in use,
> we probably generated a user for you when the list archives were imported.
> Just tell it your forgot your password and it'll email you a reset link so
> you can take control of the account. In this case, we assigned you a
> best-guess username, but you can change it yourself once you log in.
>
> If you exclusively used the web forums, we have an account for you but not
> your email: hit me up and I can hand the account over to you, or you can
> just make a new one, if you like.
>
> If you want to use Discourse as a mailing list and never see the website
> again, you can; there is an option to turn on "Mailing List Mode" in your
> user prefs. New topics can be started by writing to
> [email protected], or you reply to the address on whatever email
> you want to reply to, and it ends up in the right place.
>
> If you have trouble, we can fix things (including getting you a username
> from a legacy account, assigning ownership of old posts to a new account,
> etc). Just let me know!
>
> --ryan.
> _______________________________________________
> SDL mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hello,<br><br></div>on the issue of spam(an=
d back scattering)... I think I &#39;solved&#39; it for the <a href=3D"http=
://pygame.org">pygame.org</a> website(so far). Using a combination of rate =
limiting, rbl spam lists, better email validation, web application firewall=
, moderation tools, and spam classification. All that stuff is open source,=
 and if you&#39;re interested I can answer any questions about it or the te=
chniques.<br></div></div><br><br><div>best regards,<br></div><div><br></div=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Ma=
r 28, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Ryan C. Gordon <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
tl;dr: We&#39;re going to try to move the mailing list and web forums to a =
new piece of software. Please go to <a href=3D"https://discourse.libsdl.org=
/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://discourse.libsdl.org/</a> a=
nd claim your account. You can still use it as a mailing list or a web foru=
m. This list will (probably) be going away soon.<br>
<br>
<br>
So this is an experiment with Discourse (<a href=3D"https://discourse.org/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://discourse.org/</a>), to see i=
f we can solve our mailing list and forum woes:<br>
<br>
Problems we currently have:<br>
- The forum software is wildly out of date, and couldn&#39;t be upgraded wi=
thout losing the email bridge. Upgrading the software breaks a fundamental =
feature we rely on, not upgrading it is a massive security risk. We tried--=
and failed--to move the web server to PHP7; the forums needed massive work =
to just run at all. Serious problems, like not being able to register an ac=
count or post a reply, were failing silently, so we could never be sure if =
we ever really had fixed it up completely. For now we have dropped the web =
server back to PHP5, but being trapped on old versions of basic software to=
 support old versions of custom software is doubly bad.<br>
- The spammers on the forums were brutal; they couldn&#39;t actually post b=
ecause we had to approve the accounts, but they&#39;d just flood our SMTP s=
erver with backscatter trying to make thousands of accounts, all day long.<=
br>
- We have to manually approve forum accounts in the first place.=C2=A0 :/<b=
r>
- The mailing list was unreliable, and would lose mail, lose the archives, =
etc. This was largely a problem with the list provider and not mailing list=
s in general, but migrating somewhere more reliable was non-trivial, so cha=
nging direction entirely was a reasonable option if we had to do that.<br>
- The glue that bridges between the mailing list and the forums was not gre=
at in general.<br>
<br>
<br>
As I see it, these are the primary benefits of Discourse for us:<br>
- It runs on our server.<br>
- Is well-maintained and constantly improving open source, concerned with w=
hat modern Internet communication looks like (silly things like Emoji and G=
ravatar, really important things like Unicode and REST APIs and downloadabl=
e archives of your posts, etc).<br>
- Is one central place where all communications happen.<br>
- If you like the mailing list, you can use it exclusively through email.<b=
r>
- If you like the web forums, you can use it exclusively through a web brow=
ser.<br>
- If you want to use it through the web interface and occasionally shoot of=
f a quick reply by email, you can do that too.<br>
- The web interface looks modern and responsive, with all that AJAX-y goodn=
ess. It runs well and looks good on mobile devices, too.<br>
- It has all our email archives imported! After a lot of manual cleanup and=
 one-off perl scripts, all the existing mailing list content, all the way b=
ack to _1998_ has been turned into Discourse topics with threading intact. =
More than 20,000 topics, more than 100,000 posts!<br>
- It has all the old forum posts imported too, thanks to a lot of manual cl=
eanup and one-off perl (and PHP!) scripts.<br>
- It has all the users (more than 2000!) imported. We took efforts to try t=
o merge people that posted from different email addresses over the years in=
to one account, using the latest email address we saw, and deal with people=
 that used both the forums and mailing list interchangeably over the years.=
<br>
- An actual search function that works.<br>
- Lots of bells and whistles and control over everything...not just as an a=
dministrator, but as a user, so you get the experience just how you like it=
.<br>
<br>
<br>
So we&#39;re going to give it a little time and see if we can turn off the =
existing list and forums. So that we don&#39;t end up with two separate com=
munities, we&#39;re going to make this decision pretty quickly. As such, if=
 you have problems (including a generic &quot;I hate this&quot;), please sp=
eak up loudly as soon as possible.<br>
<br>
To get started: Go to <a href=3D"https://discourse.libsdl.org/" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://discourse.libsdl.org/</a><br>
<br>
If you sign up for an account and it thinks your email is already in use, w=
e probably generated a user for you when the list archives were imported. J=
ust tell it your forgot your password and it&#39;ll email you a reset link =
so you can take control of the account. In this case, we assigned you a bes=
t-guess username, but you can change it yourself once you log in.<br>
<br>
If you exclusively used the web forums, we have an account for you but not =
your email: hit me up and I can hand the account over to you, or you can ju=
st make a new one, if you like.<br>
<br>
If you want to use Discourse as a mailing list and never see the website ag=
ain, you can; there is an option to turn on &quot;Mailing List Mode&quot; i=
n your user prefs. New topics can be started by writing to <a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>,=
 or you reply to the address on whatever email you want to reply to, and it=
 ends up in the right place.<br>
<br>
If you have trouble, we can fix things (including getting you a username fr=
om a legacy account, assigning ownership of old posts to a new account, etc=
). Just let me know!<br>
<br>
--ryan.<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
SDL mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected].=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.libsdl.org/listin<wbr>fo.cgi/sdl-lib=
sdl.org</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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