Re: IMPORTANT: Migrating away from mailing list
René Dudfield <[email protected]> Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:16:16 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.lib.sdl |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAEiAHjJnehP2B17Jpg6_zaE=7ssAr7nU=gh8mNgqQ1O6OOvgzg@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============4540464489705162824== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11484c2033f383054bef2511 --001a11484c2033f383054bef2511 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello, on the issue of spam(and back scattering)... I think I 'solved' it for the pygame.org website(so far). Using a combination of rate limiting, rbl spam lists, better email validation, web application firewall, moderation tools, and spam classification. All that stuff is open source, and if you're interested I can answer any questions about it or the techniques. best regards, On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Ryan C. Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: > > tl;dr: We're going to try to move the mailing list and web forums to a new > piece of software. Please go to https://discourse.libsdl.org/ and claim > your account. You can still use it as a mailing list or a web forum. This > list will (probably) be going away soon. > > > So this is an experiment with Discourse (https://discourse.org/), to see > if we can solve our mailing list and forum woes: > > Problems we currently have: > - The forum software is wildly out of date, and couldn't be upgraded > without losing the email bridge. Upgrading the software breaks a > fundamental feature we rely on, not upgrading it is a massive security > risk. We tried--and failed--to move the web server to PHP7; the forums > needed massive work to just run at all. Serious problems, like not being > able to register an account or post a reply, were failing silently, so we > could never be sure if we ever really had fixed it up completely. For now > we have dropped the web server back to PHP5, but being trapped on old > versions of basic software to support old versions of custom software is > doubly bad. > - The spammers on the forums were brutal; they couldn't actually post > because we had to approve the accounts, but they'd just flood our SMTP > server with backscatter trying to make thousands of accounts, all day long. > - We have to manually approve forum accounts in the first place. :/ > - The mailing list was unreliable, and would lose mail, lose the archives, > etc. This was largely a problem with the list provider and not mailing > lists in general, but migrating somewhere more reliable was non-trivial, so > changing direction entirely was a reasonable option if we had to do that. > - The glue that bridges between the mailing list and the forums was not > great in general. > > > As I see it, these are the primary benefits of Discourse for us: > - It runs on our server. > - Is well-maintained and constantly improving open source, concerned with > what modern Internet communication looks like (silly things like Emoji and > Gravatar, really important things like Unicode and REST APIs and > downloadable archives of your posts, etc). > - Is one central place where all communications happen. > - If you like the mailing list, you can use it exclusively through email. > - If you like the web forums, you can use it exclusively through a web > browser. > - If you want to use it through the web interface and occasionally shoot > off a quick reply by email, you can do that too. > - The web interface looks modern and responsive, with all that AJAX-y > goodness. It runs well and looks good on mobile devices, too. > - It has all our email archives imported! After a lot of manual cleanup > and one-off perl scripts, all the existing mailing list content, all the > way back to _1998_ has been turned into Discourse topics with threading > intact. More than 20,000 topics, more than 100,000 posts! > - It has all the old forum posts imported too, thanks to a lot of manual > cleanup and one-off perl (and PHP!) scripts. > - It has all the users (more than 2000!) imported. We took efforts to try > to merge people that posted from different email addresses over the years > into one account, using the latest email address we saw, and deal with > people that used both the forums and mailing list interchangeably over the > years. > - An actual search function that works. > - Lots of bells and whistles and control over everything...not just as an > administrator, but as a user, so you get the experience just how you like > it. > > > So we're going to give it a little time and see if we can turn off the > existing list and forums. So that we don't end up with two separate > communities, we're going to make this decision pretty quickly. As such, if > you have problems (including a generic "I hate this"), please speak up > loudly as soon as possible. > > To get started: Go to https://discourse.libsdl.org/ > > If you sign up for an account and it thinks your email is already in use, > we probably generated a user for you when the list archives were imported. > Just tell it your forgot your password and it'll email you a reset link so > you can take control of the account. In this case, we assigned you a > best-guess username, but you can change it yourself once you log in. > > If you exclusively used the web forums, we have an account for you but not > your email: hit me up and I can hand the account over to you, or you can > just make a new one, if you like. > > If you want to use Discourse as a mailing list and never see the website > again, you can; there is an option to turn on "Mailing List Mode" in your > user prefs. New topics can be started by writing to > [email protected], or you reply to the address on whatever email > you want to reply to, and it ends up in the right place. > > If you have trouble, we can fix things (including getting you a username > from a legacy account, assigning ownership of old posts to a new account, > etc). Just let me know! > > --ryan. > _______________________________________________ > SDL mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org > --001a11484c2033f383054bef2511 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hello,<br><br></div>on the issue of spam(an= d back scattering)... I think I 'solved' it for the <a href=3D"http= ://pygame.org">pygame.org</a> website(so far). Using a combination of rate = limiting, rbl spam lists, better email validation, web application firewall= , moderation tools, and spam classification. All that stuff is open source,= and if you're interested I can answer any questions about it or the te= chniques.<br></div></div><br><br><div>best regards,<br></div><div><br></div= ></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Ma= r 28, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Ryan C. Gordon <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mail= to:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span= > wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo= rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br> tl;dr: We're going to try to move the mailing list and web forums to a = new piece of software. Please go to <a href=3D"https://discourse.libsdl.org= /" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://discourse.libsdl.org/</a> a= nd claim your account. You can still use it as a mailing list or a web foru= m. This list will (probably) be going away soon.<br> <br> <br> So this is an experiment with Discourse (<a href=3D"https://discourse.org/"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://discourse.org/</a>), to see i= f we can solve our mailing list and forum woes:<br> <br> Problems we currently have:<br> - The forum software is wildly out of date, and couldn't be upgraded wi= thout losing the email bridge. Upgrading the software breaks a fundamental = feature we rely on, not upgrading it is a massive security risk. We tried--= and failed--to move the web server to PHP7; the forums needed massive work = to just run at all. Serious problems, like not being able to register an ac= count or post a reply, were failing silently, so we could never be sure if = we ever really had fixed it up completely. For now we have dropped the web = server back to PHP5, but being trapped on old versions of basic software to= support old versions of custom software is doubly bad.<br> - The spammers on the forums were brutal; they couldn't actually post b= ecause we had to approve the accounts, but they'd just flood our SMTP s= erver with backscatter trying to make thousands of accounts, all day long.<= br> - We have to manually approve forum accounts in the first place.=C2=A0 :/<b= r> - The mailing list was unreliable, and would lose mail, lose the archives, = etc. This was largely a problem with the list provider and not mailing list= s in general, but migrating somewhere more reliable was non-trivial, so cha= nging direction entirely was a reasonable option if we had to do that.<br> - The glue that bridges between the mailing list and the forums was not gre= at in general.<br> <br> <br> As I see it, these are the primary benefits of Discourse for us:<br> - It runs on our server.<br> - Is well-maintained and constantly improving open source, concerned with w= hat modern Internet communication looks like (silly things like Emoji and G= ravatar, really important things like Unicode and REST APIs and downloadabl= e archives of your posts, etc).<br> - Is one central place where all communications happen.<br> - If you like the mailing list, you can use it exclusively through email.<b= r> - If you like the web forums, you can use it exclusively through a web brow= ser.<br> - If you want to use it through the web interface and occasionally shoot of= f a quick reply by email, you can do that too.<br> - The web interface looks modern and responsive, with all that AJAX-y goodn= ess. It runs well and looks good on mobile devices, too.<br> - It has all our email archives imported! After a lot of manual cleanup and= one-off perl scripts, all the existing mailing list content, all the way b= ack to _1998_ has been turned into Discourse topics with threading intact. = More than 20,000 topics, more than 100,000 posts!<br> - It has all the old forum posts imported too, thanks to a lot of manual cl= eanup and one-off perl (and PHP!) scripts.<br> - It has all the users (more than 2000!) imported. We took efforts to try t= o merge people that posted from different email addresses over the years in= to one account, using the latest email address we saw, and deal with people= that used both the forums and mailing list interchangeably over the years.= <br> - An actual search function that works.<br> - Lots of bells and whistles and control over everything...not just as an a= dministrator, but as a user, so you get the experience just how you like it= .<br> <br> <br> So we're going to give it a little time and see if we can turn off the = existing list and forums. So that we don't end up with two separate com= munities, we're going to make this decision pretty quickly. As such, if= you have problems (including a generic "I hate this"), please sp= eak up loudly as soon as possible.<br> <br> To get started: Go to <a href=3D"https://discourse.libsdl.org/" rel=3D"nore= ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://discourse.libsdl.org/</a><br> <br> If you sign up for an account and it thinks your email is already in use, w= e probably generated a user for you when the list archives were imported. J= ust tell it your forgot your password and it'll email you a reset link = so you can take control of the account. In this case, we assigned you a bes= t-guess username, but you can change it yourself once you log in.<br> <br> If you exclusively used the web forums, we have an account for you but not = your email: hit me up and I can hand the account over to you, or you can ju= st make a new one, if you like.<br> <br> If you want to use Discourse as a mailing list and never see the website ag= ain, you can; there is an option to turn on "Mailing List Mode" i= n your user prefs. New topics can be started by writing to <a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>,= or you reply to the address on whatever email you want to reply to, and it= ends up in the right place.<br> <br> If you have trouble, we can fix things (including getting you a username fr= om a legacy account, assigning ownership of old posts to a new account, etc= ). Just let me know!<br> <br> --ryan.<br> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> SDL mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected].= org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org" rel=3D"nore= ferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.libsdl.org/listin<wbr>fo.cgi/sdl-lib= sdl.org</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div> --001a11484c2033f383054bef2511-- --===============4540464489705162824== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ SDL mailing list [email protected] http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org --===============4540464489705162824==--