Re: Updating the PHP license
Ben Ramsey <[email protected]> Thu, 26 Feb 2026 23:11:09 -0600
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.licenses.open-source.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============4646551816004937503== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0EA9FFB0-289F-443E-BEB0-5849776FA3CA" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail=_0EA9FFB0-289F-443E-BEB0-5849776FA3CA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I wanted to follow up to let this list know that I took your advice and = formally retained legal counsel, after which I opened discussion = regarding the RFC on the PHP internals mailing list on July 10, 2025 = (see https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/127984). I=E2=80=99ve = obtained consent/approval from all members of the PHP Group and = Zend/Perforce, and I=E2=80=99m finally ready to bring the RFC to a vote = with the community, which should open on, or shortly after, March 13. Thanks so much for your earlier replies and advice. If you have any = feedback or concerns feel free to message me directly or respond on the = PHP internals mailing list. Cheers, Ben > On May 25, 2024, at 12:16, Bruce Perens via License-discuss = <[email protected]> wrote: >=20 > We are not your lawyer, and you really should have one. Everything you = get from this mailing list falls short of legal advice. Many of us are = not admitted to the bar, and even the ones who are are not contracted to = advise you. >=20 > That said, it looks to me like you are within clause 5, but in your = place I would do one more thing: ask for any of the existing developers = who object to the new licensing to make that known, publishing that = request widely. For everyone who does object, write their code out of = the product. Wait a little while for further objection, and then publish = the product with the new license. >=20 > That gives you a little more protection against people who might = somehow have the desire to litigate around the license change.=20 >=20 > You should show this to your lawyer before you act on it. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sat, May 25, 2024, 10:06 Ben Ramsey <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > On May 18, 2024, at 19:21, Ben Ramsey <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >=20 >> > Hi, all! >> >=20 >> > Over the years, there have been a few discussions on this list >> > regarding the PHP license. Other parts of the open source community >> > (e.g., Debian) have had lengthy discussions and disagreements >> > regarding the license, as well. The TL;DR sentiment of all these >> > discussions amounts to: change the license to something >> > well-understood and less problematic. >> >=20 >> > So, that=E2=80=99s what I=E2=80=99m proposing to do in a new RFC = I=E2=80=99ve drafted for the >> > PHP project: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_license_update >> >=20 >> > I=E2=80=99ve not opened this up for discussion within the PHP = project yet, >> > since I=E2=80=99m still collecting feedback, and that=E2=80=99s why = I=E2=80=99m sharing it >> > here. I=E2=80=99ve put a lot of work into presenting what I think = is a sound >> > and well-reasoned argument for this change, and I=E2=80=99m asking = for >> > feedback from this group regarding the method and theory I=E2=80=99m = using to >> > go about it. >> >=20 >> > Thanks in advance! >> >=20 >> > Cheers, >> > Ben >>=20 >>=20 >> Apologies for posting the same message to the mailing list multiple=20= >> times. I had some difficulties posting to the list, but I think those=20= >> have been sorted out (many thanks to Nick and Stefano for your = help!). >>=20 >> There's a lot of history included in my proposal document, so I = wanted=20 >> to call attention to one section in particular I'd like your feedback = on=20 >> (in addition to the main "Proposal" section); that's the "RFC Impact"=20= >> section, where I describe how this proposal could impact other = software=20 >> that uses the PHP License. Please let me know if what I've described=20= >> here is a reasonable interpretation of the "upgrade clause" (clause = 5)=20 >> of the PHP License, version 3.01. >>=20 >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_license_update#rfc_impact >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Ben --Apple-Mail=_0EA9FFB0-289F-443E-BEB0-5849776FA3CA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html aria-label=3D"message body"><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" = content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body = style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = line-break: after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div><div>I wanted to = follow up to let this list know that I took your advice and formally = retained legal counsel, after which I opened discussion regarding the = RFC on the PHP internals mailing list on July 10, 2025 (see <a = href=3D"https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/127984">https://news-web.ph= p.net/php.internals/127984</a>). I=E2=80=99ve obtained consent/approval = from all members of the PHP Group and Zend/Perforce, and I=E2=80=99m = finally ready to bring the RFC to a vote with the community, which = should open on, or shortly after, March = 13.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks so much for your earlier replies and = advice. If you have any feedback or concerns feel free to message me = directly or respond on the PHP internals mailing = list.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Ben</div></div><div><br><= /div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On May 25, 2024, at 12:16, = Bruce Perens via License-discuss = <[email protected]> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"auto">We are not = your lawyer, and you really should have one. Everything you get from = this mailing list falls short of legal advice. Many of us are not = admitted to the bar, and even the ones who are are not contracted to = advise you.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">That said, it = looks to me like you are within clause 5, but in your place I would do = one more thing: ask for any of the existing developers who object to the = new licensing to make that known, publishing that request widely. For = everyone who does object, write their code out of the product. Wait a = little while for further objection, and then publish the product with = the new license.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">That = gives you a little more protection against people who might somehow have = the desire to litigate around the license change. </div><div = dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">You should show this to your = lawyer before you act on it.<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div = dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div = dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, May 25, 2024, 10:06 Ben Ramsey = <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 = .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">> On May 18, 2024, = at 19:21, Ben Ramsey <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br> > <br> > Hi, all!<br> > <br> > Over the years, there have been a few discussions on this list<br> > regarding the PHP license. Other parts of the open source = community<br> > (e.g., Debian) have had lengthy discussions and disagreements<br> > regarding the license, as well. The TL;DR sentiment of all = these<br> > discussions amounts to: change the license to something<br> > well-understood and less problematic.<br> > <br> > So, that=E2=80=99s what I=E2=80=99m proposing to do in a new RFC = I=E2=80=99ve drafted for the<br> > PHP project: <a href=3D"https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_license_update" = rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" = target=3D"_blank">https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_license_update</a><br> > <br> > I=E2=80=99ve not opened this up for discussion within the PHP = project yet,<br> > since I=E2=80=99m still collecting feedback, and that=E2=80=99s why = I=E2=80=99m sharing it<br> > here. I=E2=80=99ve put a lot of work into presenting what I think = is a sound<br> > and well-reasoned argument for this change, and I=E2=80=99m asking = for<br> > feedback from this group regarding the method and theory I=E2=80=99m = using to<br> > go about it.<br> > <br> > Thanks in advance!<br> > <br> > Cheers,<br> > Ben<br> <br> <br> Apologies for posting the same message to the mailing list multiple <br> times. I had some difficulties posting to the list, but I think those = <br> have been sorted out (many thanks to Nick and Stefano for your = help!).<br> <br> There's a lot of history included in my proposal document, so I wanted = <br> to call attention to one section in particular I'd like your feedback on = <br> (in addition to the main "Proposal" section); that's the "RFC Impact" = <br> section, where I describe how this proposal could impact other software = <br> that uses the PHP License. Please let me know if what I've described = <br> here is a reasonable interpretation of the "upgrade clause" (clause 5) = <br> of the PHP License, version 3.01.<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_license_update#rfc_impact" = rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" = target=3D"_blank">https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_license_update#rfc_impact</= a><br> <br> Cheers,<br> Ben<br></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_0EA9FFB0-289F-443E-BEB0-5849776FA3CA-- --===============4646551816004937503== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KVGhlIG9waW5p b25zIGV4cHJlc3NlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGFyZSB0aG9zZSBvZiB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBu b3QgbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkgdGhvc2Ugb2YgdGhlIE9wZW4gU291cmNlIEluaXRpYXRpdmUuIE9mZmlj aWFsIHN0YXRlbWVudHMgYnkgdGhlIE9wZW4gU291cmNlIEluaXRpYXRpdmUgd2lsbCBiZSBzZW50 IGZyb20gYW4gb3BlbnNvdXJjZS5vcmcgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzcy4KCkxpY2Vuc2UtZGlzY3VzcyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTGljZW5zZS1kaXNjdXNzQGxpc3RzLm9wZW5zb3VyY2Uub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9s aXN0cy5vcGVuc291cmNlLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xpY2Vuc2UtZGlzY3Vzc19saXN0 cy5vcGVuc291cmNlLm9yZwo= --===============4646551816004937503==--