Re: LXX verse numbering with alphanumeric character

Le 20/02/2025 à 14:27, Arnaud Vié a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> David, the OSIS ID "!" extensions that you mention are not really a 
> good way to handle this in theory, as they are "work-specific" and 
> they are ways to reference portions of verses : by nature, they might 
> be used for internal references (a note text referencing a subverse in 
> the same document) but they will completely break the verse mapping 
> features across bibles.
>
> Usually, when you have lettered verse numbers in a text, these denote 
> actual verses that were included from a different text source. They 
> should still have a unique OSIS ID, and be mappable individually.
> The typical use case I reported a while ago is the deuterocanonical 
> contents in Daniel and Esther : in pretty much all french catholic 
> bibles, the verses that are present in LXX but not in the hebrew 
> sources are using lettered verse numbers (eg. Esth 3:13a to 13g 
> containing the text of the letter, etc.)
>
> There are two possible ways of handling it :
>
> 1/ The sword-compatible hack : Ignore the lettered verse numbers, and 
> consider the text of all these verses as suffix of the previous verse.
> (eg. Esth 3:13 becomes one very long verse).
> Then, this huge verse is a mess, but the mapping of the rest of the 
> text keeps working.
> I think that's what Cyrille has been using in the past, and according 
> to Troy's answer above, this is what osis2mod might generate if you do 
> use work-specific suffixes in your source OSIS.
>
> 2/ The correct OSIS way, unsupported by sword : Declare all verses 
> individually in sequence.
> (eg. Esth 3:13a gets the OSIS ID Esth.3.14, etc.).
> Then, your chapter will have many more verses than what the sword 
> versifications allow, therefore osis2mod will merge all the end of the 
> book into the last verse.
> This is what Pierre's example shows : the end of the 1Kgs 2 has been 
> merged into the last verse 46.
>
> The good solution would be for Sword to provide a correct 
> versification for this bible.
>
> Given that here we're talking about the official LXX module, which 
> contains one of the most well-known and influential versions of the 
> bible, for sure we should have a versification defined that exactly 
> matches this base text.
> Either updating the LXX versification, or defining a new one if we're 
> worried about breaking other existing modules that might use the 
> current LXX versification.
>
> (and for lesser known bibles where we don't want to maintain a 
> hardcoded versification in sword, I've already proposed a strategy to 
> allow dynamic and modular versifications, but I'll sound like a broken 
> record if I keep mentioning it again - if you are interested we have a 
> private mail thread with DM Smith and a few other people to discuss 
> the necessary changes.)
I'm interresting!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arnaud
>
> PS : On an unrelated note, would it be possible to configure the DNS 
> blacklist of this mailing list to be a bit less agressive ? Every time 
> I write to this mailing list, I have to retry 2, 3, 4 times or more 
> until it goes through, because "droneBL" seems to have blacklisted 70% 
> of GMail's SMTP servers...
>
>
> Le jeu. 20 févr. 2025 à 13:57, Troy A. Griffitts 
> <[email protected]> a écrit :
>
>     Just a quick note:
>
>     The engine parser has a 'suffix' concept so it understand John
>     3:16a ->
>     John 3:16 (suffix a)
>
>     I don't remember what osis2mod does, but I think it (or another of
>     our
>     tools, e.g., imp2vs) may join all the suffix parts of a verse
>     together
>     and place a literal (a), (b), (c)... at the start of the section. 
>     This
>     is only for the benefit of the user and not anything which is
>     separate
>     in the engine.  None of this is ideal, but just an small effort to
>     meet
>     these exceptions with some kind of reasoning (even if not ideal).
>
>     On 2/20/25 12:28 PM, pierre amadio wrote:
>     > Hi there.
>     >
>     > Cyrille informed me about this issue:
>     > https://github.com/crosswire/xiphos/issues/1172
>     >
>     > According to Karl,
>     > """
>     > The deeper problem causing this mess is that LXX 1Kings 2 is pretty
>     > braindamaged. Do mod2imp LXX > /tmp/lxx.imp and look at 1Kings
>     2. The
>     > markup ends with a ridiculously long single verse 2:46, with nothing
>     > thereafter intervening from vv. 47-71 and 3:1, then picks up
>     normally
>     > again at 3:2. Somebody botched this one pretty badly.
>     > """
>     >
>     > In the source file used to build the module, 1Kings ends with some
>     > verse that have a funny index: it contain alphanumeric entry:
>     >
>     > 2:46
>     > 2:46a
>     > 2:46b
>     > 2:46c
>     > ... and so on until the end of the chapter.
>     >
>     > And chapter 3 starts directly with verse 2
>     >
>     http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/biblical/lxxmorph/14.1Kings.mlxx
>     >
>     > It is the same on a paper version (Septuaginta, A Reader's Edition),
>     > so I am assuming it is not a mistake.
>     >
>     > I can rebuild a LXX module with empty verses where there are missing
>     > ones such as in 1Kings 3:1 (that is already the case for Odes
>     which is
>     > dealt with already. I plan to make a global check for all books and
>     > chapters, just to be safe).
>     >
>     > What about the alphanumerical verse numbering ?
>     > Right now, i simply ignore any alphabetical character when switching
>     > from  the imp format to the xml one:
>     >
>     > https://github.com/pierre-amadio/LXX/blob/main/bin/imp2xml.py#L48
>     >
>     > This ends up with several verse nodes having the same osisID in the
>     > final xml file.
>     >
>     > What should be the ideal way to deal with those ?
>     >
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