Re: Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividers

David, that is misreading what I said.

If we want to create a new feature then it is a module makers responsibility to create the markup.

The markup which lends itself to toggling display is proper xml markup

If there are modules which use ZWNJ or else currently then this is fine and good but in that form they can not and should not get the benefit of such a feature. They would require updating.

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----------

From: David F. Haslam <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 1:40 pm
To: Peter von Kaehne <[email protected]>; SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividers

But we can help them towards that goal by making module development
less onerous.

Then perhaps they might use our derived module to help them check
their translation at each stage

without them having to keep asking us to rebuild the module for them
with all the demanding file format transformations such a task
entails.

There's nothing that forbids us to accept a module containing ZWSP
characters per se.

And, btw, existing CrossWire module KhmerNT contains 223,198
ZWSP.

Since it was released on 2012-02-15 nobody has batted an eyelid that
it used this means to mark lexical word boundaries.

Not you, not me, not anyone in the core development team.

So it's a bit rich to say over 13 years later that "it is our job to
.... and apply it".

Our ministry as a Society should include actively assisting
translators, not merely distributing their finished product.

Aside: We've not heard from any other team members yet.

David

On 2025-05-01 13:07, Peter von Kaehne
wrote:

I would not expect any Bible translator to do
anything.

if they tell us they used whatever to mark up
whatever then it is our job as module team tk take whatever and
find the appropriate semantic mark up and apply it.

This is not different.

Peter

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From: sword-devel
<[email protected]> on behalf of David
Haslam <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 12:59 pm

To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
<[email protected]>

Cc: David Haslam <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD
filter to display word dividers

Hi
Peter,

Undoubtedly,
but we cannot demand or expect most Bible translators to be
XML afficionados.

It's
even difficult to teach some members of a translation team to
use the ZWSP properly.

"If you cannot see it, key it again" can so easily become the
modus operandi.

Witness
the following in the same chapter prior to my involvement.

After
I replaced all ZWSP by MIDDLE DOT, just look at the tangle!!!

See attached text file.

So we should do "belt and braces" to help the weak.

Also
called "going the extra mile". 😎

But
worry not. My feedback is already helping the Khmer
translation team.

Best
regards,

David

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On Thursday, May 1st, 2025 at
12:47 PM, Peter von Kaehne <[email protected]> wrote:

I think this is not
difficult per se, but it should be properly encoded.

<w> seems
correct, using zero with characters seems not correct.

Peter

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From: sword-devel
<[email protected]> on behalf of
David Haslam <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 11:30 am

To: sword-devel mailing list
<[email protected]>

Cc: David Haslam <[email protected]>

Subject: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD
filter to display word dividers

I
wish to propose that we design in a new SWORD filter.

The conf key would be:

- GlobalOptionFilter=ShowWordDividers

In
the writing systems for the various languages of SE Asia (Thai,
Khmer, Lao, Myanmar) there is
[generally] no space between words.

In
this respect, they are like many European languages before
the start of silent reading . The
descriptive term is Scriptura Continua.

Some Bible translations for this region are already making
use of one of the ZERO WIDTH characters to invisibly mark
the divisions between lexical words.

Options
include:

- U+200B
ZERO WIDTH SPACE

- U+200C
ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER

- U+FEFF
ZERO WIDTH NO BREAK SPACE

They
exclude:

- U+200D
ZERO WIDTH JOINER

A
further possibility, even without requiring a full study
Bible with Strong's, etc, is to simply wrap each lexical
word within the OSIS w element.

One
without any OSIS attributes would suffice for this
purpose. Likewise, for the seg element.

My
proposal is that we design a feature to show/hide word
dividers by displaying them using a suitable visible
but non-intrusive character.

My
suggestion is to use this Unicode character by default:

- U+00B7
MIDDLE DOT

We
could even allow the actual visible character to be
specified in a second conf key, thus:

- VisibleWordDivider=U+00B7

Benefits
would include:

- Helps
with language learning to know where lexical words start
and end

- Helps
with front-end search for whole words, exact phrase or
all words

- Helps
with checking the accuracy of Bible translations by
clearly displaying lexical word boundaries at the touch
of a single key in the front-end

- Paves
the way for Study Bible with the addition of Strong's
mark-up, etc.

Here's
a sample of Khmer verse text with the MIDDLE DOT as the
visible word divider:

Obad.1.1

នេះ·ជា·សុបិន·និមិត្ដ·របស់·លោក·អូបាឌា
ព្រះអម្ចាស់·ជា·ព្រះ·មាន·បន្ទូល·ពី·ក្រុង·អេដំម ។
យើង·បាន·ឮ·ដំណឹង·មក·ពី·ព្រះអម្ចាស់
គឺ·មាន·ទូត·ម្នាក់·បាន·បញ្ជូន·ឲ្យ·ទៅ
ក្នុង·ចំណោម·ជន·ជាតិ·ទាំង·ឡាយ·ដោយ·ពាក្យ·ថា
"ចូរ·ក្រោក·ឡើង !
ចូរ·យើង·ក្រោក·ឡើង·ធ្វើ·ចម្បាំង·ទាស់·និង·គេ"

cf.
Here's what it looks like with the ZWSP as the invisible
word divider:

Obad.1.1

នេះ​ជា​សុបិន​និមិត្ដ​របស់​លោក​អូបាឌា
ព្រះអម្ចាស់​ជា​ព្រះ​មាន​បន្ទូល​ពី​ក្រុង​អេដំម ។
យើង​បាន​ឮ​ដំណឹង​មក​ពី​ព្រះអម្ចាស់
គឺ​មាន​ទូត​ម្នាក់​បាន​បញ្ជូន​ឲ្យ​ទៅ
ក្នុង​ចំណោម​ជន​ជាតិ​ទាំង​ឡាយ​ដោយ​ពាក្យ​ថា
"ចូរ​ក្រោក​ឡើង !
ចូរ​យើង​ក្រោក​ឡើង​ធ្វើ​ចម្បាំង​ទាស់​និង​គេ"

If
SWORD developers agree that my proposal merits
consideration, please would you start on the software
development.

Best regards,

David

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