Re: FW: wxMaxima accessibility
Gunter Königsmann via Maxima-discuss <[email protected]> Sat, 4 Jul 2026 07:44:01 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.mathematics.maxima.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1532965898497527282== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------Fd3zC0umeRw0fE7xzjH21vX0" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------Fd3zC0umeRw0fE7xzjH21vX0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok... ...Antrhropic Opus has build test benches that instantiate GUI=20 elements from wxMaxima and then simulate a screen reader. It has=20 uploaded that to a virtual windows computer that compiled it, tried to=20 run it and send the output back.=C2=A0 After several round trips recons th= at=20 the last wxMaxima nightly=20 (https://wolfgang.dautermann.at/maxima/nightlybuild/) now has screen=20 reader support. As the AI neither actually uses a real screen reader nor knows what to=20 expect from it nor do I it came up with loads of questions on how to=20 make that support usable now and with a plan on what to do when there=20 are answers:=20 https://github.com/wxMaxima-developers/wxmaxima/blob/main/ACCESSIBILITY.md Until the 7th of this month I even have access to a Mythos grade AI that= =20 would be able to resolve big tasks, would they arise. Kind regards, =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gunter. On 5/23/26 18:30, [email protected] wrote: > > Richard, > > I seem to recall something about MathReader from the distant past, but= =20 > didn=E2=80=99t really know what it was. > > I did listen to the demo from following your link to GitHub.=C2=A0 Sound= s=20 > like a nice idea. > > I don=E2=80=99t know all of the capabilities of MathReader or when this= =20 > project came out, but one thing I noticed in the demo was that the=20 > tool spoke entire expressions as if one would read text.=C2=A0 Although= =20 > that is okay for simple expressions, I think one really needs to have=20 > the capability of navigating through more complex expressions on=20 > demand. Think of how a sighted person would read a complex=20 > expression.=C2=A0 They would probably scan back and forth through such= =20 > expressions, sometimes focusing on just a particular part in order to=20 > digest it. > > MathML is an excellent approach for digesting and navigating through=20 > complex expressions.=C2=A0 Most screen readers support MathML very well= =20 > these days and allow the user to readily navigate through complex=20 > expressions one sub-expression at a time, including nested=20 > sub-expressions. > > Perhaps MathReader would be useful for people dealing with simple math= =20 > and who were not familiar or facile with MathML.=C2=A0 This might includ= e=20 > making textbooks more accessible for grade school students or=20 > undergraduate students. > > Anyway, thanks for the reference. Interesting work. > > --Pete > > *From:*Richard Fateman <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 23, 2026 9:03 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Maxima-discuss] FW: wxMaxima accessibility > > Hi Peter > > =C2=A0 Have you tried Mathreader? > > https://github.com/AIDASLab/MathReader > > I have not tried it, but I came across it looking for a reference to=20 > T.V. Raman's Aster project > > from years ago. > > =C2=A0 Doing OCR from handwritten math and converting it to audio seems = to=20 > have many opportunities for > > errors, but so many people are making so many claims for AI, it is=20 > hard to know what to believe. > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best regards > > Richard > > On Fri, May 22, 2026 at 3:46=E2=80=AFPM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Gunter, > > Thanks for giving this a try. > > To answer the question for another poster, I assume that this is > an attempt to make WX Maxima useable by a blind person (like > myself) who uses a screen reader like JAWS (the top commercial > screen reader), Narrator *built into Windows), or Voiceover (built > into Mac), etc.=C2=A0 Such screen readers rely on knowing what text > chunks are being sent to various parts of the display (rather than > bitmapped images) so that the screen reader can speak the text or > display it on a braille display.=C2=A0 This is not an easy task for = a > program that is highly graphical in nature. > > When I use maxima, I use the command line version and display text > in a 1D format since screen readers only speak what is on the > current line.=C2=A0 The alternative is to use MathML in an HTML wind= ow > since screen readers can now display MathML very well and enable > the user to navigate expressions along with various levels of > sub-expressions using MathML.=C2=A0 Before I retired as a research > scientist at Xerox (many moon ago!) I used to use Maple in a > similar fashion =E2=80=93 command line mode with 1D expressions (sin= ce > that was before the time MathML was supported by screen readers). > > Anyway, I would be curious to give this a shot when you feel it is > ready to test. > > If you remember, you might send me a separate note at: > > [email protected] > > Since I do not regularly keep up with this list. > > Thanks and good luck. > > --Pete > > *From:*Gunter K=C3=B6nigsmann <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2026 3:09 AM > *To:* [email protected]; [email protected] > *Subject:* wxMaxima accessibility > > Dear all, > > No idea if that will work out, but - a few years ago I tried to > add accessibility to wxMaxima, but to no avail. > > Now a colleague of mine has convinced me to try an AI abonnement. > The AI cannot really test it - at least on my computer, but I > wanted to announce that one of the first jobs I am giving to the > AI is to try again to add accessibility to wxMaxima. The result > was loads of code changes. Currently a different AI model is > trying to review that code. With a big bit of luck tomorrow's > Nightly Build will actually provide some accessibility. If it does > any feedback you send me will be forwarded to the AI that will try > to improve things. > > My current impression is: > > * AI is no silver bullet. > * It tends to try to convince you that it did a good job. If the > summary focusses on how good that job was - it often knows it > didn't manage to make it work and hopes you'll never test. > * If it doesn't find a bug it might just do random changes to > the code hoping that will help, but > * it is excellent at some jobs human beings aren't good at, > * it has resolved many problems I've been trying to resolve for > years and > * sometimes finding a solution is an iterative task when dealing > with an AI - as it is when dealing with human beings. > > Kind regards, > > =C2=A0 Gunter. > > _______________________________________________ > Maxima-discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/maxima-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Maxima-discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/maxima-discuss --------------Fd3zC0umeRw0fE7xzjH21vX0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-= 8"> </head> <body> <p>Ok... ...Antrhropic Opus has build test benches that instantiate GUI elements from wxMaxima and then simulate a screen reader. It has uploaded that to a virtual windows computer that compiled it, tried to run it and send the output back.=C2=A0 After several round trips recons that the last wxMaxima nightly (<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://wolfgang.dauterm= ann.at/maxima/nightlybuild/">https://wolfgang.dautermann.at/maxima/nightly= build/</a>) now has screen reader support.</p> <p>As the AI neither actually uses a real screen reader nor knows what to expect from it nor do I it came up with loads of questions on how to make that support usable now and with a plan on what to do when there are answers: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://github.com/wxMaxima-dev= elopers/wxmaxima/blob/main/ACCESSIBILITY.md">https://github.com/wxMaxima-d= evelopers/wxmaxima/blob/main/ACCESSIBILITY.md</a></p> <p>Until the 7th of this month I even have access to a Mythos grade AI that would be able to resolve big tasks, would they arise.</p> <p>Kind regards,</p> <p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gunter.</p> <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 5/23/26 18:30, <a class=3D"moz-txt-l= ink-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</= a> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:[email protected]"> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUT= F-8"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:Aptos;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;}span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif; color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}ol {margin-bottom:0in;}ul {margin-bottom:0in;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Richard,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I seem to recall something about MathReader from the distant past, but didn=E2=80=99t really know what it wa= s.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I did listen to the demo from following your link to GitHub.=C2=A0 Sounds like a nice idea.<o:p></o:p></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t know all of the capabilitie= s of MathReader or when this project came out, but one thing I noticed in the demo was that the tool spoke entire expressions as if one would read text.=C2=A0 Although that is okay for simpl= e expressions, I think one really needs to have the capability of navigating through more complex expressions on demand.=C2=A0 Think of how a sighted person would read a complex expression.=C2=A0 They would probably scan back and forth throug= h such expressions, sometimes focusing on just a particular part in order to digest it.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">MathML is an excellent approach for digesting and navigating through complex expressions.=C2=A0 Most screen readers support MathML very well these days and allow the user to readily navigate through complex expressions one sub-expression at a time, including nested sub-expressions.<o:p>= </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Perhaps MathReader would be useful for people dealing with simple math and who were not familiar or facile with MathML.=C2=A0 This might include making textbooks mo= re accessible for grade school students or undergraduate students.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyway, thanks for the reference.=C2=A0 Interesting work.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">--Pete<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in = 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From= :</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Richard Fateman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"m= ailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> <br> <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 23, 2026 9:03 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mai= lto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Maxima-discuss] FW: wxMaxima accessibility<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=A0 = Have you tried Mathreader?<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://github.com/AIDASLab/MathReader" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"= >https://github.com/AIDASLab/MathReader</a><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p>= =C2=A0</o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have not tried it, but I came across it looking for a reference to T.V. Raman's Aster project<o:p></o:p></span><= /p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">from years ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=A0 = Doing OCR from handwritten math and converting it to audio seems to have many opportunities for<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">errors, but so many people are making so many claims for AI, it is hard to know what to believe.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p>= =C2=A0</o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Richard= <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p>= =C2=A0</o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p>= =C2=A0</o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p>= =C2=A0</o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=C2=A0</o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, May 22, 2026 at 3:46<span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=E2=80= =AF</span>PM <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">p= [email protected]</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6= .0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Gunter,<o:p><= /o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks for giving this a try.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">To answer the question for another poster, I assume that this is an attempt to make WX Maxima useable by a blind person (like myself) who uses a screen reader like JAWS (the top commercial screen reader), Narrator *built into Windows), or Voiceover (built into Mac), etc.=C2=A0 Such screen readers rely on knowing what te= xt chunks are being sent to various parts of the display (rather than bitmapped images) so that the screen reader can speak the text or display it on a braille display.=C2=A0 This is not an easy task for a program that is highly graphical in nature.<o:p></o:p>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">When I use maxima, I use the command line version and display text in a 1D format since screen readers only speak what is on the current line.=C2=A0 The alternative is = to use MathML in an HTML window since screen readers can now display MathML very well and enable the user to navigate expressions along with various levels of sub-expressions using MathML.=C2=A0 Before I retired a= s a research scientist at Xerox (many moon ago!) I used to use Maple in a similar fashion =E2=80=93 command li= ne mode with 1D expressions (since that was before the time MathML was supported by screen readers).<o:p></o:= p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Anyway, I would be curious to give this a shot when you feel it is ready to test.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If you remember, you might send me a separate note at:<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank= " moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">[email protected]<= /a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Since I do not regularly keep up with this list.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks and good luck.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--Pete<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0= in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From= :</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Gunter K=C3=B6nigsmann <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">gunter@peterpa= ll.de</a>> <br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2026 3:09 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">maxima-discuss= @lists.sourceforge.net</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">ptorpey00@gmai= l.com</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> wxMaxima accessibility</span><o:= p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">=C2=A0<o:p></= o:p></p> <p>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p> <p>No idea if that will work out, but - a few years ago I tried to add accessibility to wxMaxima, but to no avail.<o:p></o:p></p> <p>Now a colleague of mine has convinced me to try an AI abonnement. The AI cannot really test it - at least on my computer, but I wanted to announce that one of the first jobs I am giving to the AI is to try again to add accessibility to wxMaxima. The result was loads of code changes. Currently a different AI model is trying to review that code. With a big bit of luck tomorrow's Nightly Build will actually provide some accessibility. If it does any feedback you send me will be forwarded to the AI that will try to improve things.<o:p></o:p></p> <p>My current impression is:<o:p></o:p></p> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le= vel1 lfo1">AI is no silver bullet.<o:p></o:p></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le= vel1 lfo1">It tends to try to convince you that it did a good job. If the summary focusses on how good that job was - it often knows it didn't manage to make it work and hopes you'll never test.<o:p></o:p></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le= vel1 lfo1">If it doesn't find a bug it might just do random changes to the code hoping that will help, but<o:p><= /o:p></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le= vel1 lfo1">it is excellent at some jobs human beings aren't good at,<o:p></o:p></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le= vel1 lfo1">it has resolved many problems I've been trying to resolve for years and<o:p></o:p></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le= vel1 lfo1">sometimes finding a solution is an iterative task when dealing with an AI - as it is when dealing with human beings.<o:p></o:p></li> </ul> <p>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p> <p>=C2=A0 Gunter.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">_____________________________________= __________<br> Maxima-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">[email protected]= rceforge.net</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/maxima-discuss" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.sourceforg= e.net/lists/listinfo/maxima-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> <br> <fieldset class=3D"moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset> <br> <fieldset class=3D"moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset> <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">_____________________________= __________________ Maxima-discuss mailing list <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Maxima-discuss@lists.= sourceforge.net">[email protected]</a> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/l= ists/listinfo/maxima-discuss">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo= /maxima-discuss</a> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html> --------------Fd3zC0umeRw0fE7xzjH21vX0-- --===============1532965898497527282== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --===============1532965898497527282== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Maxima-discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/maxima-discuss --===============1532965898497527282==--