Re: MML and "Building Mizar from Scratch"

Josef Urban josef.urban _AT_ gmail.com <[email protected]> Sat, 21 Dec 2024 10:55:08 +0800
Newsgroups gmane.comp.mathematics.mizar
Message-ID <CAFP4q17rJmxkx=V0ug1oiQ2qzn+XXhoJ9gBh1c6pCFgcufmApg@mail.gmail.com>
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Long before GitHub CI, there was the git-based wiki for Mizar [1,2,3].
Someone (likely not me) could update/revamp it, it's pretty simple (git
hooks). It died long ago because there were no users.

I think Mario's Rusty Mizar also has scripts for verifying the whole MML
from scratch.

Btw., the git-based decentralization revolution followed by the
GitHub-based centralization is pretty interesting. Somebody could write the
history and study the dynamics of internet-based cycles of decentralized
freedom and centralized laziness (invariably followed by major data/privacy
sellouts/screwups/etc, leading to the next cycles).

Josef

[1] http://arxiv.org/abs/1005.4552
[2] https://github.com/JUrban/mwiki
[3] http://arxiv.org/abs/1107.3209


On Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 19:55 adamn _AT_ math.uwb.edu.pl <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> Quoting "Alex Nelson  thmprover _AT_ gmail.com"
> <[email protected]>:
>
> > There has been some interest in building Mizar from scratch on the proof
> > assistant stackexchange (see, e.g.,
> > https://proofassistants.stackexchange.com/q/4453/14 and
> > https://proofassistants.stackexchange.com/q/4441/14).
>
> Thanks for pointing this out.
>
> > Right now, it is possible to compile many of the Mizar components using
> the
> > Free Pascal Compiler, and a Makefile is around somewhere.
> >
> > But, as best as I can tell, it is not possible to "build the MML from
> > scratch" (in the sense that I can't download a copy of the MML, use my
> > local Mizar system to verify it, and then update my local Mizar system to
> > use it).
> >
> > Is such a thing possible? If so, could we add instructions on how to do
> it?
>
> In fact all the basic building blocks are available to every Mizar
> user, because creating MML from scratch doesn't differ that much from
> building a local database.
> Essentially one just needs a copy of axiomatic and initial 'prel'
> files (hidden.*, tarski_0.*, tarski_a.*, *.dre), vocabularies for MML
> and Mizar itself (mml.vct, mizar.dct) and the MML version number file
> (mml.ini). All the other database files can be generated by
> sequentially calling: accom, exporter and transfer for all the
> articles whose names are provided by the MML article order file
> (mml.lar).
> So just like with compiling the software, the process is fairly
> simple, but there are the obvious technical differences if one wants
> to do it in various environments (Linux, Windows, MacOs, etc.).
>
> > Also, could we move the MML to be a github repository? One advantage to
> > doing so is the ability to file issues on Github with possible minor
> > cleanups (e.g., the definition GROUP_1:def 5 is a little too strict and
> > should instead work with any non empty Group-like multMagma, not just
> > Groups).
>
> Sounds like a good idea to me. Since the founding of MML there's been
> a policy to allow users build their own libraries, but to keep the
> main library development centralized in order to avoid all sorts of
> issues with incompatible versions.
> But I agree that these days the project can benefit much more by
> involving in the work on MML a larger group of people used to
> git-based tools.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adam
> --
> Adam Naumowicz
>
> ===========================================================================
> Division of Programming and Formal Methods   Fax: +48(85)738-83-33
> Faculty of Computer Science                  Tel: +48(85)738-83-06 (office)
> University of Bialystok                      E-mail: [email protected]
> Ciolkowskiego 1M, 15-245 Bialystok, Poland
> http://math.uwb.edu.pl/~adamn/
> ===========================================================================
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Long before GitHub CI, there was the git-based wiki for M=
izar [1,2,3]. Someone (likely not me) could update/revamp it, it&#39;s pret=
ty simple (git hooks). It died long ago because there were no users.=C2=A0<=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think Mario&#39;s Rusty Miza=
r also has scripts for verifying the whole MML from scratch.<div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Btw., the git-based decentralization revolut=
ion followed by the GitHub-based centralization is pretty interesting. Some=
body could write the history and study the dynamics of internet-based cycle=
s of decentralized freedom and centralized laziness (invariably followed by=
 major data/privacy sellouts/screwups/etc, leading to the next cycles).</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Josef=C2=A0</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">[1]=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://arxiv.org/=
abs/1005.4552">http://arxiv.org/abs/1005.4552</a></div><div dir=3D"auto">[2=
] <a href=3D"https://github.com/JUrban/mwiki">https://github.com/JUrban/mwi=
ki</a></div><div dir=3D"auto">[3] <a href=3D"http://arxiv.org/abs/1107.3209=
">http://arxiv.org/abs/1107.3209</a></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div=
></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 19:55 adamn _AT_ <a href=3D"ht=
tp://math.uwb.edu.pl">math.uwb.edu.pl</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:owner-mizar=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Alex,<br>
<br>
Quoting &quot;Alex Nelson=C2=A0 thmprover _AT_ <a href=3D"http://gmail.com"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gmail.com</a>&quot;=C2=A0 =
<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt;:<br>
<br>
&gt; There has been some interest in building Mizar from scratch on the pro=
of<br>
&gt; assistant stackexchange (see, e.g.,<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://proofassistants.stackexchange.com/q/4453/14" rel=3D=
"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://proofassistants.stackexch=
ange.com/q/4453/14</a> and<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://proofassistants.stackexchange.com/q/4441/14" rel=3D=
"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://proofassistants.stackexch=
ange.com/q/4441/14</a>).<br>
<br>
Thanks for pointing this out.<br>
<br>
&gt; Right now, it is possible to compile many of the Mizar components usin=
g the<br>
&gt; Free Pascal Compiler, and a Makefile is around somewhere.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; But, as best as I can tell, it is not possible to &quot;build the MML =
from<br>
&gt; scratch&quot; (in the sense that I can&#39;t download a copy of the MM=
L, use my<br>
&gt; local Mizar system to verify it, and then update my local Mizar system=
 to<br>
&gt; use it).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Is such a thing possible? If so, could we add instructions on how to d=
o it?<br>
<br>
In fact all the basic building blocks are available to every Mizar=C2=A0 <b=
r>
user, because creating MML from scratch doesn&#39;t differ that much from=
=C2=A0 <br>
building a local database.<br>
Essentially one just needs a copy of axiomatic and initial &#39;prel&#39;=
=C2=A0 <br>
files (hidden.*, tarski_0.*, tarski_a.*, *.dre), vocabularies for MML=C2=A0=
 <br>
and Mizar itself (mml.vct, mizar.dct) and the MML version number file=C2=A0=
 <br>
(mml.ini). All the other database files can be generated by=C2=A0 <br>
sequentially calling: accom, exporter and transfer for all the=C2=A0 <br>
articles whose names are provided by the MML article order file=C2=A0 <br>
(mml.lar).<br>
So just like with compiling the software, the process is fairly=C2=A0 <br>
simple, but there are the obvious technical differences if one wants=C2=A0 =
<br>
to do it in various environments (Linux, Windows, MacOs, etc.).<br>
<br>
&gt; Also, could we move the MML to be a github repository? One advantage t=
o<br>
&gt; doing so is the ability to file issues on Github with possible minor<b=
r>
&gt; cleanups (e.g., the definition GROUP_1:def 5 is a little too strict an=
d<br>
&gt; should instead work with any non empty Group-like multMagma, not just<=
br>
&gt; Groups).<br>
<br>
Sounds like a good idea to me. Since the founding of MML there&#39;s been=
=C2=A0 <br>
a policy to allow users build their own libraries, but to keep the=C2=A0 <b=
r>
main library development centralized in order to avoid all sorts of=C2=A0 <=
br>
issues with incompatible versions.<br>
But I agree that these days the project can benefit much more by=C2=A0 <br>
involving in the work on MML a larger group of people used to=C2=A0 <br>
git-based tools.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Adam<br>
-- <br>
Adam Naumowicz<br>
<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
<br>
Division of Programming and Formal Methods=C2=A0 =C2=A0Fax: +48(85)738-83-3=
3<br>
Faculty of Computer Science=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tel: +48(85)738-83-06 (office)<br>
University of Bialystok=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</a><br>
Ciolkowskiego 1M, 15-245 Bialystok, Poland=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://ma=
th.uwb.edu.pl/~adamn/" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
://math.uwb.edu.pl/~adamn/</a><br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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