Re: Is L4Linux can use its existed Linux driver to access hardware device?

Hi,

On 09/09/2016 11:49 AM, Zhe Zhao wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Majorly I'd like to run a Android M with L4Linux on my ODROID-XU4,
> board, but I'm not sure is that possible, seems there is a L4Android
> already, but it is running
> on a qemu with strange two androids run together.
> 
> Is there similiar project in your side, and is that a good idea to run
> Android on L4Linux, if I understand it correct, I just need to port
> needed linux driver to L4Linux, and
> build a native google android, then it should work?

Running Android in a virtualized environment is a tough task.
Unfortunately it is not "just" about porting drivers to L4Linux. Device
pass-through is a tricky thing. If you still want to pursue this
endeavour a good start is to build a generic ARM version of Android from
the AOSP. Then take the disk images, create a L4Re configuration and try
to boot the system.

Matthias.

> 
> I want to achieve Android together with a subsystem can achieve hard
> real time, instead of using weird VM solutions.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Br
> Alex
> 
> 
> 2016-09-09 14:27 GMT+08:00 Matthias Lange
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     On 09/07/2016 09:00 AM, Zhe Zhao wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > Thanks for you answers.
>     >
>     > Does Fiasco use the scheduler that follow the priority? I mean like if
>     > there is high priority task, it will always have CPU?
> 
>     I would like to point you to this recent thread on the mailing list
>     which discusses details about L4Re's scheduling [1].
> 
>     > Does Fiasco already support tickless kernel? or it will use a fixed 1000
>     > HZ as the tick?
> 
>     There is some support for tickless/oneshot mode in the L4Re microkernel
>     but it is not tested.
> 
>     > I'd like to run L4Linux on a Droid-xu4 or raspberry is there any easy
>     > start guide for it?
> 
>     Unfortunately no. But it is not complicated either. You can take the
>     L4Linux basic example as a starting point. You need to build the L4Re
>     microkernel for the right platform. The userland needs to be compiled
>     for the right ARM architecture (Rasperry Pi is ARM6k whereas the Droid
>     is ARMv7). Then you create an uImage which you can e.g. boot via tftp.
> 
>     > When I tried the L4Linux with ramdisk which in the L4Re snapshot, it
>     > seems the it just like running a Linux. I don't know if below
>     > understanding is correct, if not please correct me
>     >
>     > The syscall fork "int 80" will be redirect to L4Linux from Fiasco by IPC
>     > (how Fiasco knows to redirect int 80 through IPC to L4Linux?), and fork
>     > will be executed inside L4Linux, then L4Linux will create Fiasco task?
>     >  (so here we have two task proc combined to identify one linux process),
>     > and L4Linux will create vmspace for the process ? then how the memory
>     > space be handled to Fiasco?
> 
>     L4-like systems have the concept of an exception handler per thread. For
>     L4Linux this means that all exceptions triggered by a Linux user process
>     are send to the L4Linux kernel.
> 
>     In the case of fork() the L4Linux kernel eventually creates a new L4
>     task (l4_factory_create_task). Memory gets mapped from the L4Linux task
>     into the new task e.g. upon pagefaults.
> 
>     > From the above assumption, it means I can just build a rootfs with
>     > native Linux apps, and use IO manager to pass the harddisk/emmc to
>     > L4Linux, then I can run whatever apps I like?
> 
>     Basically yes. On ARM platforms there are some stumbling blocks for sure
>     as device pass-through can be tricky at times.
> 
>     > I'd like to start read codes related to Fiasco, L4Re, any suggestions
>     > about the start point?
> 
>     That's a very generic question and the generic answer for the L4Re
>     microkernel is: fiasco/src/kern. Do you have any specific mechanisms in
>     mind you want to understand?
> 
>     Matthias.
> 
> 
>     [1]
>     http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/pipermail/l4-hackers/2016/007907.html
>     <http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/pipermail/l4-hackers/2016/007907.html>
> 
>     >
>     > Br
>     > Alex
>     >
>     >
>     > 2016-09-06 23:37 GMT+08:00 Matthias Lange
>     > <[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>>>:
>     >
>     >     Hi,
>     >
>     >     On 09/05/2016 11:36 AM, Zhe Zhao wrote:
>     >     > Hi,
>     >     >
>     >     > Thanks for your answers, I really appreciate it.
>     >     >
>     >     > I tried to run L4Linux and L4Re in a qemu environment, is it
>     support SMP
>     >     > already? I found I only have a single core L4Linux running.
>     and Fiasco
>     >     > report only one scheduler instance.
>     >
>     >     Yes, SMP is supported. Have you configured the L4Re
>     microkernel with
>     >     multiprocessing support? Did you start qemu with multiple CPUs? To
>     >     enable more CPUs in L4Linux you need to pass the
>     'l4x_cpus=<VALUE>'
>     >     parameter on the cmdline.
>     >
>     >     > And is it possible to direct reuse the L4Linux's driver
>     instead of
>     >     > rewrite them in L4Re? is that IO manager used to mapping all
>     needed
>     >     > device physical address to L4Linux's memory space? Is that
>     mean I can map
>     >     > all device direct to L4Linux through IO manager?
>     >
>     >     Yes, but there might be work involved. First you should make
>     yourself
>     >     familiar with the concepts of Io [0].
>     >
>     >     > Is there any work ongoing to support ARM64 on L4Re and
>     L4Linux? It will
>     >     > be quite interesting consider most of the ARM device are
>     moving to be 64
>     >     > bit arch.
>     >
>     >     We are looking at it but there is nothing to announce publicly
>     right now
>     >
>     >     > Do you have some recommend documents for the newbie like me
>     to get a
>     >     > quick start up?
>     >
>     >     The L4Re documentation [1].
>     >
>     >
>     >     Matthias.
>     >
>     >     [0] http://l4re.org/doc/io.html
>     >     [1] http://l4re.org/doc/
>     >
>     >     > Br
>     >     > Alex
>     >     >
>     >     > 2016-09-02 14:24 GMT+08:00 Matthias Lange
>     >     > <[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>
>     >     <mailto:[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     <mailto:[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>
>     >     <mailto:[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>>>>:
>     >     >
>     >     >     Hi,
>     >     >
>     >     >     On 08/31/2016 02:35 PM, Zhe Zhao wrote:
>     >     >     > Hi,
>     >     >     >
>     >     >     > After read the basic ideas of L4Linux I have some
>     questions
>     >     related to it.
>     >     >     >
>     >     >     > Is L4Linux run as a paravirtualization VM on L4Re?
>     Then the
>     >     traditional
>     >     >     > Linux Process just still compiled against Linux system and
>     >     put them
>     >     >     > together with L4Linux disk image?
>     >     >     > so it means L4Re works like qemu and Linuxl?
>     >     >
>     >     >     No, L4Re does not work like qemu.
>     >     >
>     >     >     > or L4Re works as a micro kernel operating system, and
>     >     L4Linux run as a
>     >     >     > process on it, all devices handled to L4Linux to reuse the
>     >     drivers of
>     >     >     > L4Linux? and the previous Linux process
>     >     >     > compiled with Linux, but run direct on L4Re as L4
>     processes
>     >     which
>     >     >     > communicate with L4Linux through IPC?
>     >     >
>     >     >     L4Linux is a modified version of the Linux kernel with the
>     >     hardware
>     >     >     abstraction layer (HAL) implemented using L4Re primitives.
>     >     Technically
>     >     >     L4Re appears to be "just" another hardware architecture for
>     >     the Linux
>     >     >     kernel, just like ARM or MIPS.
>     >     >
>     >     >     L4Linux runs as a user space task on top of the L4Re
>     >     microkernel and at
>     >     >     the (Linux) kernel ABI is unmodified which allows to run
>     >     existing Linux
>     >     >     programs. That means, you can compile "normal" Linux
>     programs
>     >     with your
>     >     >     standard tool chain, put the binary onto a ramdisk or disk
>     >     image and run
>     >     >     it with L4Linux.
>     >     >
>     >     >     > it is quite confused after read a little of the codes, in
>     >     L4Linux, seems
>     >     >     > there is some injection of L4 task stuffs inside
>     >     thread_struct of Linux,
>     >     >     > but also have some vCPU related stuffs,
>     >     >     > can you help me about what is the real behavior of
>     L4Linux?
>     >     >
>     >     >     Each (Linux) process is actually an L4Re task with the
>     >     exception and
>     >     >     page fault handler set to the L4Linux task. That's why some
>     >     L4-specific
>     >     >     additions are required to Linux kernel data structures.
>     >     >
>     >     >     Matthias.
>     >     >
>     >     >     > I'm sorry to ask this basic questions, but after some
>     >     digging I feel
>     >     >     > quite confused about how it works.
> 
> 


-- 
Matthias Lange, [email protected], +49-351-41 888 614

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