Re: Google Calendar Caldav support dropped?

On Fr. 15.03.2013 17:19, Philipp Kewisch wrote:
> On 3/15/13 1:41 PM, cheekybuddha wrote:
>> On Friday, March 15, 2013 9:19:12 AM UTC, Peter Lairo wrote:
>>> One thing that needs mentioning is that if the Lightning developers had
>>>
>>> made it easier to set up lightning with a Google CalDAV calendar, then
>>>
>>> Google would have many more users and would thus have been much less
>>>
>>> likely to abandon CalDAV. so I put part of the blame on the Lightning
>>>
>>> developers.
>
> Seriously?

Yes. Google's stated reason for ending CalDAV is:

"Everyone has a device, sometimes multiple devices."

and

"To make the most of these opportunities, we need to focus—otherwise we 
spread ourselves too thin and lack impact."

So, if more "devices" used CalDAV, it would be a feature with more 
"impact". And since Lightning doesn't support Google CalDAV in any 
normal user friendly way, that "impact" is diminished. And that 
reduction of impact is *partially* due to Lightning's deficiency in this 
are.

My original observation still stands:

"I put *part* of the blame on the Lightning developers."

> The fraction of the 1.2 Million average daily users that uses
> Google CalDAV will really make a difference? Or even the remaining
> amount that didn't succeed in setup? If this were an Email and
> Calendaring client with a large portion of the market share that might
> be a valid argument, but blaming me is just wrong.

Are you saying there are a total of 1.2 M users of CalDAV, or there are 
1.2 M users of Thunderbird? Or what?

I'm saying that if Lightning were integrated into Thunderbird by 
default, and Lightning could more easily set up a Google calendar, then 
*a huge increase in the percentage* of Thunderbird users would access 
their Google calendar via CalDAV.

> I'm sorry you don't
> have your feature and I would love to see it too, but there are just
> bigger problems to handle: getting rid of update problems by replacing
> libical with a js implementation, fixing performance problems with many
> events, improving test coverage and architecture to avoid regressions.

Those certainly sound like important issues, but I disagree that those 
are "bigger" (i.e. more important) problems.

> I've tried to encourage new contributors to work on this project, but
> that didn't succeed yet.

I've been racking my brain for years why there are not more programmers 
who help out with Thunderbird and Lightning - both being awesome 
programs and good causes. I just can't understand why. (NOT sarcasm!)

Well, one reason could be this:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124096

> Google is likely doing this because they need to manage their traffic in
> a better way.

Could be. But I suspect that if more people used CalDAV (like IMAP), it 
would be much harder for them to just drop it. I don't see them dropping 
IMAP, and that is a much bigger "traffic" issue.

> As I've said numerous times before, this will go out well. Lightning
> will be able to handle this.

What will be the solution? Will you just stay with CalDAV within the 
white-list? Will you add support for the "Google Calendar API" as Google 
recommends? That sound like a good solution because the Google Calendar 
API probably supports a lot of the extra features. Yeah, I know - not an 
open standard. That's a reasonable objection.

> Enough with the bashing today!

If a polite and limited critique is considered "bashing", then there is 
an additional danger of failure due the yes-man echo-chamber effect. 
(Unless you meant the other respondents' bashing me: "totally 
ridiculous", "Can't believe you're serious", "crass statement". Although 
I don't consider any of that "bashing" either.)

Despite all of this discussion, and despite my original criticism, I am 
VERY grateful to you Philipp for making and improving this awesome and 
important calendar program! Thank you!
-- 
Regards,
Peter Lairo

Bugs I think are important:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=467153 Google Cal Setup
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769476 Sync Reordering
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446444 Sync for Thunderbird
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391057 Write to Mac AB

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