Re: [l10n-web] Reminder: Brand names remain unchanged

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 3:17 PM Michael Bauer <[email protected]> wrote:

> You don't have to be fluent in 150 language to know that there are
> languages that stick bits on other words. Even if you had no knowledge
> of how languages work, the obvious thing would be to *ask* the
> translators at your disposal if approach X works and if not, why not.
> Between Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian, Basque, Czech and Russian being
> long established locales, surely someone would have pointed out the
> obvious.
>
> Reading between the lines of my last message, this is the point I'm
making: who am I to tell you how to adhere to the policy when I don't know
your language? I trust everyone here can make recommendations for how
they'd like to proceed to handle these cases and work with us to make sure
those recommendations adhere to the policy and produce a reasonable
localization.

> So you implemented a policy without considering what a language like
> Basque for example where <of> or <'s> is expressed by sticking <en> or
> <aren> on the end of the noun is supposed to do when it has to say
> something like "Mozilla's browser"?
>
> Wow. Just wow.
>
>
Let's not assume that the l10n team blindly made recommendations to the
Brand team of how to craft the policy. I wouldn't categorize our
involvement as wholly blind, ignorant, or hasty.  A certain level of
assumed expertise, competence, and professionalism would be helpful here.

> Does the brand team realize this is more restrictive that even
> Microsoft's policy? Microsoft localization allows suffixes as long as
> you don't change the letters of the product name itself, such as
>
> Hae kuvia Microsoftin ClipArt-kokoelmasta. (Finnish)
> Microsoft Storen laitesovellus (Finnish)
> Wordi automatiseerimisteenused (Estonian)
> Skypové jméno (Czech)
>
> We spent a full year advising Branding on how to treat the brand in other
languages. We pulled in examples like these to justify our position and
represent the past requests from localizers like you to have more
flexibility, with many localizers alongside us in meetings with the Brand
team. Ultimately, it's not the l10n team's call to make, but to make
informed recommendations to Brand and inform Brand of the trade-offs
associated with a more strict policy versus a more flexible one. We've done
what we can by leveraging examples from Microsoft, Google, and others.

> and in some cases, even the root may be modified:
> Na Skypu (Czech)
> Do Chortana (Gaelic)
>
> M
>
> Sgrìobh Jeff Beatty na leanas 22/08/2019 aig 21:57:
> > Not being an expert in the intricacies of all languages (who is?), I
> can't
> > speak to what options everyone has at their disposal. I know that the
> Brand
> > team is firm on this policy and despite our multiple attempts to convince
> > them otherwise, there's no wiggle room, unfortunately.
>
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