Re: Removing Firefox Version Number

Isaac Stitz wrote:
> On Aug 20, 5:16 pm, Asa Dotzler<[email protected]>  wrote:
>> Adam Kowalczyk wrote:
>>
>>   >  Allow me to chime in, as I made the same point in another post but it
>>   >  went unanswered.
>>   >
>>   >  Your answer doesn't address the problem. He heard Firefox 15 was
>>   >  have process-per-tab and he wants to find out if he's running that
>>   >  version yet. Telling that he's got the latest version, without
>>   >  specifying its number, does not help him.
>>
>> Hi Adam. Two answers. First, if Firefox 15 has shipped, he's already
>> running it or will be as soon as he opens the About window.  If it
>> hasn't shipped, he's not running it. He doesn't have to wonder.
>
> Yes I do, because I have no way of knowing when Mozilla actually
> pushes FF15 out to updaters.  Like I said before, what if Mozilla is
> pushing out the update later in the day or the release even gets
> delayed.  Since I don't know what Mozilla's current definition of "up-
> to-date" means, "You are up-to-date" is not a helpful piece of
> information here.  The version number is.

Most people do not need to know down to the minute when a browser 
release has happened. If it's not shipped yet, they can't use it. If it 
has shipped, they'll have it.

You and I are not like most users, we're following these releases pretty 
closely and we want to know the minute we have new changes -- even 
changes that we can't see or use. For users like us, there are 
extensions that put this information right up in our faces all the time. 
If that's too much, then we can use Help -> Troubleshooting.

>> Let me give you another example. Firefox shipped "Hardware Acceleration"
>> in Firefox 4. As a user I might want to know if I have Hardware
>> Acceleration. Opening the About dialog and looking at the version there,
>> Firefox 4.0.1 doesn't actually tell me if I have hardware acceleration.
>> The only easy way to find that out is to go to the Troubleshooting
>> window and see if I have full, partial, or no hardware acceleration.
>
> I can't see anywhere where it says whether I have full, partial or no
> HW acceleration on the troubleshooting page...  Was this added post-
> FF6?  (I can ask that because I know I'm using FF6.)

Look down near the bottom in the section titled "Graphics". That section 
and HW Accel info has been there since Firefox 4.

>> Likewise, Firefox shipped with a "new Firefox button for all your common
>> menu-driven interactions". As a user I might want to know if I have that
>> feature. The way to find this out is not to open the About dialog, but
>> to look up at my toolbar and see if I have the new Firefox button. If
>> I'm on Mac, or Linux, or Windows XP, I won't have it and the version
>> number doesn't help me at all because it's only available on certain
>> platforms.
>
> Windows XP and Linux both have the new FF menu...  (Can't speak for
> Mac.)

It is available on XP and Linux, but not as the default option. Users 
must enable it to see it there.

>> My point is, that the features that power users like you and me care
>> about (hardware acceleration, new graphics backends, process separation,
>> etc.) are better understood from the Troubleshooting window than the
>> About window AND that non-geeky features, like the Firefox button or
>> tabs on top, are obvious from the feature itself or not better
>> understood by querying the About dialog.
>
> Why are they better understood from the troubleshooting window?  Us
> "power users" who follow FF's development (and actually know what
> different versions signify) will be better served by a concise version
> number than by an exhaustive listing of browser information, the only
> piece of which we need is the version number.

Power users are quite capable of finding the Troubleshooting window. It 
is the hundreds of millions of not-power users that we're trying to 
optimize for.

>> But, because I don't want to be accused again of not answering the
>> question, if you're one of those people who follow the tech press
>> closely enough that you're waiting for new features in Firefox, you can
>> always check the Troubleshooting page for the Firefox version -- or if
>> you really really need it front and center, there are extensions that
>> will put it in your titlebar or addonbar for you where you can't ever
>> miss it, and I'm sure there will be an extension that puts it into the
>> About dialog as well.
>
> In other words, we have to modify the browser to make it behave
> correctly.  For the relatively few people who know this is required,
> this is only a nuisance.  However, for even power users unaware of
> this change, it is a big problem.

Power users adapt their UIs and to new UIs. That's one of the defining 
characteristics of power users.

> I consider myself very attentive to FF's development, yet I had no
> idea that the version number could be found on the troubleshooting
> page until I read through this discussion.

But now you do know and you can easily find your way back there. It's 
kind of awesome being a power user.

> How is it going to be when users less attentive than I suddenly lose
> the ability to discover what version they're using.

I think if you read back over what I've already written, you'll see that 
I've several times made the argument that those users don't need to know 
what version they're on. If you want to debate that, let's debate it, 
but can we please stop asking and answering the same question over and 
over here?

What use cases do you have for regular users needing to keep close track 
of the version number, or to know it at all outside of troubleshooting 
browser or website problems? I've addressed several of the cases folks 
have put forward so it might be worth skimming back over some of my 
posts here for that background if you missed it.

Like I said, I'm happy to keep discussing this, I'd just like to feel 
like we're not re-hashing the same questions over and over. Does that 
make sense? (I swear I'm not trying to stop the discussion. I promise.)

- A