Re: Removing Firefox Version Number

On Aug 19, 9:30 pm, Asa Dotzler <[email protected]> wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> > The most common question users have when they access the About
> > dialog is "What version of the software do I have?".  A distant second
> > may be "Am I running the latest version of the software?".
>
> You have data for that? I'd love to read it. Can you post a link or at
> least summarize for us what that data says -- especially the really
> important part about why it is that users on the Firefox rapid release
> system are asking themselves what version they have.

Asa,

At the risk of sounding childish - which is not my intent, but could
likely be misread in the following:
"I'll show you mine, if you show me yours."

There have been many calls for you to show your data, explaining how
including the version number in the about box is a detriment to a
Firefox user.  The closest I've seen to a response from you on these
repeated inquiries was in your response to Vega on 19-Aug-2011, 23:30,
where you wrote:
"Mozilla is not purely data driven...So we do not require data for all
changes in the Mozilla project."


> Based on your usability and design education and experience, or your
> experience and research into this or relevant areas, what do you say is
> the problem a user is trying to solve when she is looking up a Firefox
> version number? What causes a regular mainstream Firefox user who has
> been on the Firefox rapid release track for half a year or so to ask
> that question? Help me understand. She says to herself, "I really need
> to know what version of Firefox I'm using." Why does she say that? What
> does that information help her accomplish? What is the use case?

I'm sorry, but the question seems to be twisting here.  I'm not
suggesting what problem a user is trying to solve when looking up a
Firefox version number.  I'm suggesting that - based on decades of
software developed conforming to Windows design guidelines, Mac OS HID
guidelines, GNOME UI guidelines; and hundreds of millions, if not
billions, of users of that software - there are two things that are
(based on the overwhelming historical evidence) reasonably expected to
be in the application's "About" box: The name of the software (yeah,
that's pretty redundant, too, if you think about it - after all, isn't
it a reasonable assumption to make that the application name is
somewhere at the top of the window/screen?) and the version number of
the software.  There are a lot of other useful things that could be
dropped there, and probably some less-useful things - things like
credits, software license, "easter eggs", related software from the
same or partner development houses (here, I'm thinking a link to the
Mozilla-hosted addons might be nifty), privacy policy, etc.

I agree that "a regular mainstream Firefox user who has been on the
Firefox rapid release track for half a year or so" would likely not be
as interested in finding the version number (at all?) as someone who
is using Firefox for the first time, coming to it with only knowledge
of other windowed applications as their knowledge base.  This is why,
in another post, I suggested that perhaps the way to roll this change
out in such a way that it didn't have the backlash that this has
released: remove the version number from the "About" box after the
version number has become irrelevant, rather than removing it and then
trying to make it irrelevant.  It follows logically that once the
users and support groups for the product have determined that the
version number is no longer relevant, that it could be no longer
displayed in the "About" box.  It does not follow logically (which -
I'm hazarding a guess here, may be why so many people are reacting to
this change with cognitive dissonance) that removing the version
number from the "About" box will make users less interested in said
version number.  (And - if the version number really is relegated to
the dark shores of irrelevancy - there would be no need to keep it
displayed in the agent string, nor in the Help-Troubleshooting window,
nor anywhere else; so it seems that it is still relevant, and while
relevant should be displayed in the location that is most common for
windowed apps to display it: the "About" box.)

> (It turns out that I have some ability to help shape the Firefox
> experience for hundreds of millions of users and so if you can help me
> understand this particular use case better than I currently do, I can
> help make Firefox better for all of those users.)

Which is why I have been so disappointed with the posts that have come
across as being dismissive of the concept that there might be a valid
reason why so many people were suddenly up in arms about something
seemingly so trivial.  I believe - based on historical evidence of the
Firefox project - that there are a host of highly skilled, remarkably
knowledgeable individuals and teams working on the constant
improvement and evolution of this product.  And it seems wildly out of
character for (a) vocal member(s) of said teams to a) post Bugzilla
entries for code change requests without any description of the
problem/issue/etc. that said change is supposed to resolve; b) write
posts that are easily interpreted as dismissive or even openly hostile
to what appear to be well-reasoned arguments against said change (and
yes - I totally understand and agree that the impulsive arguments and
personal attacks should be dismissed with prejudice); c) Describe a
complete rewriting of the Bugzilla entry's description as "fixing a
typo".

> As I said above, the UX team and I have thought about this and talked
> about this and we assert (yes, people with lots of education,
> experience, and solid track records in a particular area or profession
> sometimes do that) that a user who is on Firefox's rapid release system
> wants to know what version she is using in order to accomplish primarily
> these two tasks: 1) to determine if she is up to date in order to get
> herself up to date, and 2) to do some troubleshooting.

Sorry, but this is where you come across as condescending and
dismissive.   Had the parenthetical been omitted, it would have been a
flat, objective statement.  Including the pedantic justification for
the statement makes it sound (and again, I don't think this is your
intention - I just am letting you know that this is the type of
comment that is the type of thing that tends to get people's
flamethrowers powered on) like you're telling me that - without
knowing anything substantive about me - you are smarter, have more
experience, and know what's best.  I'll freely grant the second point,
but the first and third, I tend to argue. ;-)

> If those are not the big reasons she wants to know the version number,
> and you know a more important one that's applicable in Firefox's rapid
> release model, please share. With more use cases, we can discuss better
> solutions and that's obviously what you and I are after here.

As I noted three paragraphs above, I think that a longtime user of the
rapid release Firefox could be convinced that the version number is
irrelevant, and needed only when troubleshooting.  However, I also
assert that if the Firefox team wants to actually double (I think that
was the number I saw you post a few days ago - please forgive me for
not digging back though the entirety of related threads for the exact
quote) the user base, and not alienate new users, it would be a Good
Idea(tm) to keep the version number displayed in the About box, where
new users expect to see the application name and version number.
Regardless of whether the version number is available somewhere else,
I assert that a user new to Firefox, but comfortable as a windowed
software user, would be put off by not finding a version number in the
About box (while a user comfortable with the rapid release cycle may
be perfectly accepting of that idiosyncrasy).

Regards,
--Steve Cook--