[HCP discuss] Re: [feedback] Are you trying to keep testers away??

Charles -

A click through BEULA is a great idea. I'm not sure I can convince the
powers that be to drop the data collection (name and number, etc) but
you never know. Its always been my opinion that we want to create a
situation where people want us to have their contact info, instead of
coercively dragging it out of them. Not only will we get better info, but
we won't alienate those folks who might want to investigate our
tech/products anonymously.

I think its fair to say our licensing is evolving, and hopefully improving too.
Real is making a very difficult transition from a proprietary to an
open model. With feedback like yours coming in, hopefully we'll find a
good way to strike a balance between the needs of our users and the
needs of our shareholders.

Regards,

-duncan

ps: Did you ever get a look at the player? If so, what do you think?


At 02:50 PM 10/22/2003, Charles Kerr wrote:
>Duncan, thanks for the reply.  I should've triple-checked that I hadn't
>overlooked something like that before firing off the letter.  Likewise,
>thanks to Kevin for the very polite reply.
>
>Nevertheless, this is just another step for me to go through to download
>the binary.  Is it too whiny of me to just want a Binary EULA
>clickthrough on the download page, and skip the account signup, the email,
>and giving out my email address, my street address, and my phone number?
>
>--
>cheers,
>Charles
>
> > The reason you can't just download the Helix player is that it include
> > support for Real Audio/Video, technologies which have not been opened
> > sourced. The Binary EULA is an agreement which allows you to use these
> > proprietary technologies and requires that you agree to not to try and
> > reverse engineer them. If a version of the player was available without
> > RA/RV, supporting an open video codec like Ogg Theora for example, the
> > BEULA requirement would go away.
> >
> > I looked at your Helix community account ( charleskerr) and I see that you
> > haven't agreed to the BEULA yet which would explain the difficulty you're
> > having grabbing the binary. You might also want to agree to our public
> > source license (the RPSL), which will give you access to the Helix DNA
> > source. Agreeing to these licenses is the key to upgrading your account's
> > access, which you can do by clicking on the various licenses on the
> > left-hand navbar. You can review the licenses associated with your account
> > by clicking on the "My pages" tab, and then "Edit profile" (in the My 
> Tools
> > area of the lefthand navbar).
> >
> > Lastly, I'd agree in general terms that the licensing is overly complex.
> > We're looking at ways that we can simplify the process, but we're 
> balancing
> > that against other requirements. Thanks for your feedback and your 
> patience
> > while we fine tune our site.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -duncan
> >
> > At 10:24 AM 10/22/2003, Kevin Foreman wrote:
> > >Charles, first, thank you very much for taking the time to articulate 
> your
> > >frustration.  You could have simply vanished and not 'educated' us as to
> > >how frustrating we have made the site.
> > >
> > >Second, our intent (if that counts) is to make the site as friction-free
> > >as possible.  Yes, we want testers and No we are not trying to keep them
> > >away.  We are considering some changes in the site very much in line with
> > >your feedback.  Stay tuned on that front.  In the meantime, We'll ensure
> > >that we get you the player and that any system hitches are looked after.
> > >
> > >Thanks again for your candor and sorry about the frustration.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> > >----------
> > >
> > >
> > >At 09:26 AM 10/22/2003 -0700, Charles Kerr wrote:
> > >>I went to https://player.helixcommunity.org/ after seeing the
> > >>announcement at lwn, searched for download, and made it to
> > >>https://www.helixcommunity.org/servlets/TLogin .  Hm, I have to
> > >>have to fill out a form to get an account first.  I do so, and
> > >>a few minutes later I get a URL in my inbox that I follow to set my
> > >>password.  After doing this, I go back to the download page
> > >>and log in... then I have a four page EULA... then when I accept
> > >>the EULA, I'm thrown back to the login page because I don't have
> > >>the "Project Document - View" permission needed to get to the beta.
> > >>
> > >>**VIEW PERMISSIONS**!!  As if you want to keep people from accidentally
> > >>finding the player and, I don't know, downloading it and testing it for
> > >>you or who knows what.
> > >>
> > >>So, the steps I followed to get the Helix player;
> > >>
> > >>  (1) Go to player.helixcommunity.org.
> > >>  (2) Find the download link.
> > >>  (3) Fill out a form, including giving out my email address.
> > >>  (4) Follow the privacy policy link to see if I'm going to get spam.
> > >>  (5) Submit the form.
> > >>  (6) Wait for mail in my inbox.
> > >>  (7) follow the mail's URL to set my password.
> > >>  (8) Read (or, page down past) a four-page EULA.
> > >>  (9) All for naught, because I'm  don't have **VIEW PERMISSION**!!
> > >>
> > >>Let's compare to the steps to get xmms:
> > >>
> > >>  (1) Go to www.xmms.org.
> > >>  (2) Find the download link.
> > >>  (3) Download the source or RPM.
> > >>
> > >>Or the steps to get the ogg CLI player:
> > >>
> > >>  (1) Go to www.vorbis.com.
> > >>  (2) Find the download link.
> > >>  (3) Download the source or RPM.
> > >>
> > >>I'll guess that the view permission is probably just a (show-stopping)
> > >>glitch that will be fixed, but what's the need for accounts, passwords,
> > >>and four-page EULAs at all?   I'd like to give the helix player a spin,
> > >>but criminy, the Linux world already has xmms; it's not like we _need_
> > >>to jump through all your hoops.
> > >>
> > >>Grumble.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks for listening; I feel better now. :)

Duncan Howard
Helix Community Program Manager
http://helixcommunity.org


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