Re: Ogg & Ogg Vorbis _unofficial_ logos page.

> Could you put my idea up there too? Maybe we could have a logo 
> competition!

We don't have anyone here good enough to compete at a level where we'd
accept the logos.  At least judging from past experience.

> I'd really like to hear an official response on this subject from 
> Xiph.org. I respect the technical abilities of the Ogg developers, 
> but when it comes to hardware branding neither the fish or the thor 
> logos are adequate. I think the input of some experienced graphic 
> designers and/or marketing people is needed, as it would be a shame 
> for Ogg support to go unrecognised over such a simple issue.

We wholeheartedly agree, and have said so many times.  We need the help
of experienced people.  To my knowledge, accepting random logos from
hackers doesn't qualify for this either.

> Why do you think iRiver created their own logo for Vorbis support? 

Because they didn't know what else to use.  It is not as if they asked
us and we said no.  We had only sporadic contact with them.

> Because the existing logos just don't work, and are far too expensive 
> to print on the case of a hardware device.

The fish logo looks fine in black and white.  They are already doing
fullcolor stuff on the rest of the box.  I don't believe that the logos
are done separately, and probably don't cost any more regardless of the
number of colors.  Note that the IOmega HipZip firmware had the Ogg logo
on its black and white lcd when you looked at the about screen.

> If you don't tackle this 
> issue, you'll either get a variety of non-standard logos appearing, 
> or more likely you won't see Ogg on hardware or packaging at all.

We see both happening already, and some people using the fish.  Most
people use the fish.

> There's no reason why the fish can't be retained as the logo of 
> Xiph.org or whatever. But please, look beyond your personal 
> attachment to the old logos and think about the bigger picture.

We all like the fish, but only Monty is attached to anything else.  I'm
happy to make specialized branding stuff all day long, but until there
is someone talented at logo work to step up to the plate, we'll do with
what we have.

This is no offense to any past or present logo-drawing people.  Logos
are quite difficult, and we are very picky.  The only logos we've seen
so far that we all thought were good enough to continue with were those
drawn by Sheryl, and even those we felt needed some work and still
haven't been completed.

jack.
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