[marketing-dev] Re: ping

"WorldLabel.com" <[email protected]> Tue, 24 May 2011 10:17:54 -0400
Newsgroups gmane.comp.openoffice.devel.marketing
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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> The areas where some clarity would be useful (to put it mildly) include:
license, ownership of copyright, developer resources, and so >on and so
forth.

Are there any discussions / decisions regarding this?


On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Alexandro Colorado <[email protected]>wr=
ote:

> Well I guess this is more than what I expect from a ping, and had silently
> followed the discussion. I have also talked with community developers of =
OOo
> (non oracle employees that work on the OOo project). And have discussed O=
Oos
> future and also internal systems that now seems to be like a being in an
> isolated chamber of a sinking ship. Sure you are isolated from the noise,
> but the whole infrastructure is starting to come to a halt.
>
> The issue here is how much of the infrastructure really depend on Oracle's
> infrastructure where admins stop managing the process and build machines
> stop producing new builds.
>
> At the same time, I do share some of the views on how to move forward. My
> personal view (which is not set in stone) is that OOo will need to either
> start generating infrastructure on the hands of the community and out of
> Oracle's management.
>
> I do have my questions regarding the whole topic of money, sure we do need
> money, but I doubt we need 10m like louis mentions. I also doubt is worth=
 to
> do mostly a maintenance. And have been looking the other way which is
> dismantle the software, re-engineer the processes on more modern language
> and be able to adapt pieces of it to more flexible paradigm of developmen=
t.
>
> Other teams like Mozilla did this with Mozilla's original browser. And co=
st
> around 2 years of quiet period and just minor releases until Firefox came=
 to
> town.
>
> OOo has very old html engine, very old graphic engine and also seems that
> most of the efforts in the past (UX, www-at-odf) didn't really make an
> impact on the application. I don't think this was a lack of will but rath=
er
> a lack of communication between the company to recruit contributions. I
> think one big fault of OOo is the lack of power to consolidate contributi=
ons
> from developers."The year of the developer" never really came and we are
> still stuck on thinking money first and code second. Which is what I think
> leadership should shift to a more development centric manner.
>
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Louis Suarez-Potts <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> The OpenOffice.org Community is obviously in a state of change.  I think=
 a
>> crucial element to us all moving ahead is to establish and then act on, =
in
>> good faith, those areas where we=97OOo and LO communities (aspects of th=
e same
>> thing) can work together and reconcile differences.
>>
>> Let me start by stating that we, Stefan Taxhet, Andr=E9 Schnabel, Florian
>> Effenberger, and I, will be holding a teleconference later this week to
>> further put into place those things that need to be done to move ahead.
>>
>> The Most Important Thing from my perspective, is that the broader
>> community understand that they are contributing to building this togethe=
r,
>> and coupled to that, that our users, public sector as well as individual
>> consumers, and private companies big and small, have the confidence to
>> continue using ODF implementations based on OpenOffice.org source.
>>
>> I think that all of us here in OOo-land appreciate the problems OOo was
>> born with and never really corrected, and that these relate as much to h=
ow
>> code and other contributions are encouraged and also accepted (or not). =
 And
>> I think that to move forward, especially now in light of Oracle's 15 Apr=
il
>> announcement, means that we can re-evaluate elemental procedures so that=
 the
>> overall community can work together.
>>
>> But the basic issues I referred to before still apply=97money, in short=
=97and
>> on that subject, we need to hold fire and be patient. There are numerous
>> unknowns circulating, still. However, we can, and we shall, in the
>> meanwhile, talk.
>>
>> To reiterate: My personal goal is to have a community project whose
>> identity is not a proxy for this or that company but the unique ensemble=
 of
>> all its contributors, bound together by a common goal of building the be=
st
>> and most universally usable set of productivity tools implementing the O=
DF.
>> And that we look to the future while tending to the present: satisfy the
>> needs of the desktop users but cock an eye to the sky and imagine ODF
>> implementations that freely move us into Cloud.
>>
>> -louis
>>
>>
>> On 2011-05-20, at 14:03 , Bernhard Dippold wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Louis, all,
>> >
>> > it is great, that you still feel responsible for the OOo community -
>> > even if the way you perform this responsibility causes some thoughts...
>> >
>> > You have been Sun's OpenOffice.org Community Manager
>> > and later on Oracle's Community Manager until you left Oracle
>> > some months ago.
>> >
>> > As far as I know this post has never been open for election by the
>> > community, it has been given to you by your former
>> > employer and I don't know about it's validity after you left Oracle.
>> >
>> > But I want to address you as OpenOffice org community member - a
>> community I myself feel affiliated for more than six years.
>> >
>> > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> On 2011-05-13, at 04:39 , Ian Lynch wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I know this might be a bit of an emotive topic for some, but
>> >>> wouldn't it be an idea to open up dialogue with the LibreOffice
>> >>> people? A split community was never an ideal situation from a
>> >>> simple logical point of view.
>> >
>> > A split had to be accepted when the foundation had been set up, but TDF
>> > has always been open to any contributor and invited not only Oracle but
>> > all the people hesitant to join a broader basis with less influence by
>> > single companies.
>> >
>> >>> Ok, there are emotional wounds to heal but talking about
>> >>> possibilities without any commitment on either side can't do any
>> >>> harm.
>> >
>> > I fully support any discussion between OOo and TDF community members.
>> > In my opinion our split community can be reunited quite easily, if
>> > everybody looks for the goals she/he has with our office suite and how
>> > we can achieve them.
>> >
>> >>> Maybe this is already happening?
>> >
>> > In an open community (or if you prefer: among two open communities) th=
is
>> > should done on the mailing lists, so thank you for this question.
>> >
>> > Actually I hope that there will be more friendly discussion among TDF
>> and OOo community members, leading to the perception of positive interac=
tion
>> and common goals.
>> >>
>> >> Actually, Florian and I are discussing that exactly. The days of
>> >> stiff difference are over with; were over with when Oracle renounced
>> >> OOo as a revenue source. And in their lieu, discussions of
>> >> reconciliation.
>> >
>> > Sorry, not being a native speaker, I can't really understand what you'=
re
>> > talking about - and Google translator doesn't help very much either.
>> >
>> > So you mean that the time where Florian was "persona non grata" for
>> > OpenOffice.org is over, because Oracle dropped commercial support for
>> > the community?
>> >
>> > And does reconciliation mean that you start to imagine, that the TDF
>> > founders might have been right in working on the ten year old vision of
>> > an independent foundation *before* Oracle might drop any support for t=
he
>> > community?
>> >
>> > We still don't know if dropping commercial support means to close the
>> > entire infrastructure and sell the trademark to somebody else (I still
>> > hope they don't, but it is a monetary issue, and Oracle is said to be
>> > aware of costs and money).
>> >
>> > Without the Document Foundation our community's situation would be even
>> > more problematic.
>> >
>> > It took several months to create a working infrastructure - of course
>> > there are tasks not finished by now, but the infrastructure is able to
>> provide the product for download and support the community in their work.
>> >
>> >> To be sure, there are still personal differences. These are, to me,
>> >> not irrelevant but ought not to stop the development of the code by
>> >> the larger community.
>> >
>> > Every now and then during the last 10 years there have been personal
>> differences, but they have always been considered less relevant than the
>> work we did and still do for our community.
>> >
>> > Code development is done by the larger community.
>> >
>> > While the gap created by the uncertainties after the Oracle announceme=
nt
>> > seems to get broader and broader with no visible release activities
>> > after beta1 for OOo3.4.0 (two days before this announcement), the
>> > community developers working on LibreOffice removed bugs (even quite
>> > visible bugs) on their version, so the development is going on.
>> >
>> >
>> >> What counts, what makes up, what comprises that larger community is
>> >> of some debate. We need a lot of money to develop the code.
>> >
>> > Right. We need corporate contributors. Some of the already contribute =
to
>> > LibreOffice, overcoming the hindrances of one main contributor with
>> > nearly unlimited control.
>> >
>> >> We need, that is, far more than LibreOffice or TDF or any single
>> >> company can probably provide.
>> >
>> > LibreOffice and TDF are no company, they just do, what we should have
>> > done earlier in the past: Provide a basis where contributors can do
>> > their work, where companies and corporations can share their interest,
>> > but know that none of them will have the force to define any rules or
>> > modify the foundations mission.
>> >
>> > Based on this ideas, TDF raised 50.000 Euro (mainly by small donations=
 -
>> > probably users and small companies) in only 8 days.
>> >
>> > Imagine large corporations start to support the community, because they
>> > don't have to fear the influence of any single main sponsor - provide
>> > money, code contributors, helping out the community with other issues.=
..
>> >
>> >> Figure more than 10M USD/annum.  That's to develop the code, test it,
>> >> distribute it, and move ahead into areas that go beyond the limits of
>> >> legacy.
>> >
>> > It's a challenge - but based on the efforts the community already did =
by
>> > creating TDF it is much more likely to be achieved than if the few
>> > people staying here try to raise such an amount on their own.
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately, for something like OOo, a "community effort," still
>> >> needs huge buckets of money. It's not about corporations, per se.
>> >> It's about needing to get dedicated developers, one way or another,
>> >> working on the code, so that it can be reliably produced, and
>> >> satisfy the most demanding expectations.
>> >
>> > Right - that's what is done with LibreOffice.
>> >>
>> >> Meanwhile, I continue to drive ODF interest, and continue to
>> >> represent OOo at ODF events; and continue to represent, as much as I
>> >> can, as energetically as I can, to the world.
>> >
>> > You drive what?
>> >
>> > You still try to make the world believe that LibreOffice is nothing but
>> > Novell's contribution to Microsoft's universe because there is a very
>> > small area of code development based on a contract among them.
>> >
>> > You don't do ODF and the entire FOSS ecosystem a favor if you declare,
>> > that there would be no reliable alternative to MS Office anymore for
>> > people fearing that the lack of activity in the OOo project might cause
>> > their adoption to fail.
>> >
>> >> I have no animus toward LibreOffice, though I do have my share of
>> >> doubts;
>> >
>> > What you tell us here and in your blog, is much more than animus -
>> > please see below.
>> >
>> >> but my spirit is stamped with OOo, its community, its goal, of
>> >> providing reliable and reliably, the best productivity tools there
>> >> are to the most people.
>> >
>> > My goals have not changed during the last years, and I'm not alone -
>> > there is a large number of community members having spent hundreds or
>> > thousands of hours in their spare time for this community and its goal=
s.
>> >
>> > But we don't insist on the name - it's the community's spirit that liv=
es
>> on.
>> >
>> > Create and maintain the best open source office productivity suite.
>> >
>> > Be part of the community that stands behind this suite and have
>> > influence by real merit: Every community member contributing for more
>> > than just a short period is able to elect the Board of Directors and be
>> > elected to it.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> -louis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> [...]
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts
>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>> [...]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is not even the case that other projects using OOo technology
>> >>>> have that much greater insight. They do not.
>> >
>> > This clearly addresses LibreOffice and TDF.
>> >
>> >>>> They may have more activity, but absent the energy of
>> >>>> production, there is no production of energy.
>> >
>> > And you tell the world that there would not be productive work over
>> there?
>> >
>> > Together with the accusations against the Novell employees, ignorance =
of
>> > the large number of other developers, and repeatedly mentioning your
>> > "doubts" about LibreOffice you create an image that doesn't describes
>> > you as possible contact for reconciliation and re-unification of our
>> > large community.
>> >
>> > If Oracle wants to drop support for the infrastructure and code
>> > development (and I can't understand the cessation of the release cycle
>> > and the mailing list migration differently), this will be the only way
>> > to survive as the open source alternative to MS Office:
>> >
>> > Coordinate and integrate the community's work in both parts of the
>> > community back to the open and integrative community I love to work for
>> > during the last 6 years.
>> >
>> > But you are not the person I want to be represented by.
>> > I want to work together with the entire community in order to overcome
>> > this very dangerous situation not only for OpenOffice.org, but for the
>> > broader FOSS community and their acceptance in public too.
>> >
>> > Your comments, blogs and interviews don't show any integrative ideas,
>> > but try to damage LibreOffice and TDF on different levels instead of
>> > using the unique chance to re-unite our community leading to the highe=
st
>> > strength and best position for our office suite in the current tangled
>> > situation.
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> >
>> > Bernhard
>> >
>> > PS: You probably know that I neither have any formal role in the OOo
>> community nor in TDF. This mail is just my personal opinion as community
>> member trying to further our office suite in any way I can.
>> > --
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
>> > For additional commands send email to [email protected]
>> > with Subject: help
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
>> For additional commands send email to [email protected]
>> with Subject: help
>>
>
>
>
> --
>  *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Espa=F1ol
> http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
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<div>&gt; The areas where some clarity would be useful (to put it mildly) i=
nclude: license, ownership of copyright, developer resources, and so &gt;on=
 and so forth.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Are there any discussions=A0/ decisions regarding=A0this?=A0=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Alexandro Colo=
rado <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Well I guess this is more than w=
hat I expect from a ping, and had silently followed the discussion. I have =
also talked with community developers of OOo (non oracle employees that wor=
k on the OOo project). And have discussed OOos future and also internal sys=
tems that now seems to be like a being in an isolated chamber of a sinking =
ship. Sure you are isolated from the noise, but the whole infrastructure is=
 starting to come to a halt. <br>
<br>The issue here is how much of the infrastructure really depend on Oracl=
e&#39;s infrastructure where admins stop managing the process and build mac=
hines stop producing new builds. <br><br>At the same time, I do share some =
of the views on how to move forward. My personal view (which is not set in =
stone) is that OOo will need to either start generating infrastructure on t=
he hands of the community and out of Oracle&#39;s management.<br>
<br>I do have my questions regarding the whole topic of money, sure we do n=
eed money, but I doubt we need 10m like louis mentions. I also doubt is wor=
th to do mostly a maintenance. And have been looking the other way which is=
 dismantle the software, re-engineer the processes on more modern language =
and be able to adapt pieces of it to more flexible paradigm of development.=
 <br>
<br>Other teams like Mozilla did this with Mozilla&#39;s original browser. =
And cost around 2 years of quiet period and just minor releases until Firef=
ox came to town. <br><br>OOo has very old html engine, very old graphic eng=
ine and also seems that most of the efforts in the past (UX, www-at-odf) di=
dn&#39;t really make an impact on the application. I don&#39;t think this w=
as a lack of will but rather a lack of communication between the company to=
 recruit contributions. I think one big fault of OOo is the lack of power t=
o consolidate contributions from developers.&quot;The year of the developer=
&quot; never really came and we are still stuck on thinking money first and=
 code second. Which is what I think leadership should shift to a more devel=
opment centric manner. <br>

<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Louis Suarez-Po=
tts <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">All,<br><br>The Open=
Office.org Community is obviously in a state of change. =A0I think a crucia=
l element to us all moving ahead is to establish and then act on, in good f=
aith, those areas where we=97OOo and LO communities (aspects of the same th=
ing) can work together and reconcile differences.<br>
<br>Let me start by stating that we, Stefan Taxhet, Andr=E9 Schnabel, Flori=
an Effenberger, and I, will be holding a teleconference later this week to =
further put into place those things that need to be done to move ahead.<br>
<br>The Most Important Thing from my perspective, is that the broader commu=
nity understand that they are contributing to building this together, and c=
oupled to that, that our users, public sector as well as individual consume=
rs, and private companies big and small, have the confidence to continue us=
ing ODF implementations based on OpenOffice.org source.<br>
<br>I think that all of us here in OOo-land appreciate the problems OOo was=
 born with and never really corrected, and that these relate as much to how=
 code and other contributions are encouraged and also accepted (or not). =
=A0And I think that to move forward, especially now in light of Oracle&#39;=
s 15 April announcement, means that we can re-evaluate elemental procedures=
 so that the overall community can work together.<br>
<br>But the basic issues I referred to before still apply=97money, in short=
=97and on that subject, we need to hold fire and be patient. There are nume=
rous unknowns circulating, still. However, we can, and we shall, in the mea=
nwhile, talk.<br>
<br>To reiterate: My personal goal is to have a community project whose ide=
ntity is not a proxy for this or that company but the unique ensemble of al=
l its contributors, bound together by a common goal of building the best an=
d most universally usable set of productivity tools implementing the ODF. A=
nd that we look to the future while tending to the present: satisfy the nee=
ds of the desktop users but cock an eye to the sky and imagine ODF implemen=
tations that freely move us into Cloud.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>-louis<br></font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>On 2011-05-20, at 14:03 , Bernhard Dippold wrote:<br><br>&gt; =
Hi Louis, all,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; it is great, that you still feel responsible=
 for the OOo community -<br>&gt; even if the way you perform this responsib=
ility causes some thoughts...<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; You have been Sun&#39;s OpenOffice.org Community Manager<br>&g=
t; and later on Oracle&#39;s Community Manager until you left Oracle<br>&gt=
; some months ago.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; As far as I know this post has never bee=
n open for election by the<br>
&gt; community, it has been given to you by your former<br>&gt; employer an=
d I don&#39;t know about it&#39;s validity after you left Oracle.<br>&gt;<b=
r>&gt; But I want to address you as OpenOffice org community member - a com=
munity I myself feel affiliated for more than six years.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; Hi,<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&=
gt; On 2011-05-13, at 04:39 , Ian Lynch wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I know this might be a bit of an emotive topic for some, but<br>&gt;&gt;&gt=
; wouldn&#39;t it be an idea to open up dialogue with the LibreOffice<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; people? A split community was never an ideal situation from a<=
br>&gt;&gt;&gt; simple logical point of view.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; A split had t=
o be accepted when the foundation had been set up, but TDF<br>&gt; has alwa=
ys been open to any contributor and invited not only Oracle but<br>
&gt; all the people hesitant to join a broader basis with less influence by=
<br>&gt; single companies.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Ok, there are emotional =
wounds to heal but talking about<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; possibilities without any =
commitment on either side can&#39;t do any<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; harm.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I fully support any discussion between O=
Oo and TDF community members.<br>&gt; In my opinion our split community can=
 be reunited quite easily, if<br>&gt; everybody looks for the goals she/he =
has with our office suite and how<br>
&gt; we can achieve them.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Maybe this is already hap=
pening?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; In an open community (or if you prefer: among two o=
pen communities) this<br>&gt; should done on the mailing lists, so thank yo=
u for this question.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Actually I hope that there will be more friendly discussion am=
ong TDF and OOo community members, leading to the perception of positive in=
teraction and common goals.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Actually, Florian and I=
 are discussing that exactly. The days of<br>
&gt;&gt; stiff difference are over with; were over with when Oracle renounc=
ed<br>&gt;&gt; OOo as a revenue source. And in their lieu, discussions of<b=
r>&gt;&gt; reconciliation.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Sorry, not being a native speake=
r, I can&#39;t really understand what you&#39;re<br>
&gt; talking about - and Google translator doesn&#39;t help very much eithe=
r.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; So you mean that the time where Florian was &quot;person=
a non grata&quot; for<br>&gt; OpenOffice.org is over, because Oracle droppe=
d commercial support for<br>
&gt; the community?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; And does reconciliation mean that you s=
tart to imagine, that the TDF<br>&gt; founders might have been right in wor=
king on the ten year old vision of<br>&gt; an independent foundation *befor=
e* Oracle might drop any support for the<br>
&gt; community?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; We still don&#39;t know if dropping commerc=
ial support means to close the<br>&gt; entire infrastructure and sell the t=
rademark to somebody else (I still<br>&gt; hope they don&#39;t, but it is a=
 monetary issue, and Oracle is said to be<br>
&gt; aware of costs and money).<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Without the Document Founda=
tion our community&#39;s situation would be even<br>&gt; more problematic.<=
br>&gt;<br>&gt; It took several months to create a working infrastructure -=
 of course<br>
&gt; there are tasks not finished by now, but the infrastructure is able to=
 provide the product for download and support the community in their work.<=
br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; To be sure, there are still personal differences. These=
 are, to me,<br>
&gt;&gt; not irrelevant but ought not to stop the development of the code b=
y<br>&gt;&gt; the larger community.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Every now and then duri=
ng the last 10 years there have been personal differences, but they have al=
ways been considered less relevant than the work we did and still do for ou=
r community.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Code development is done by the larger community.<br>&gt;<br>&=
gt; While the gap created by the uncertainties after the Oracle announcemen=
t<br>&gt; seems to get broader and broader with no visible release activiti=
es<br>
&gt; after beta1 for OOo3.4.0 (two days before this announcement), the<br>&=
gt; community developers working on LibreOffice removed bugs (even quite<br=
>&gt; visible bugs) on their version, so the development is going on.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; What counts, what makes up, what comprises that la=
rger community is<br>&gt;&gt; of some debate. We need a lot of money to dev=
elop the code.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Right. We need corporate contributors. Some =
of the already contribute to<br>
&gt; LibreOffice, overcoming the hindrances of one main contributor with<br=
>&gt; nearly unlimited control.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; We need, that is, far m=
ore than LibreOffice or TDF or any single<br>&gt;&gt; company can probably =
provide.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; LibreOffice and TDF are no company, they just do, what we shou=
ld have<br>&gt; done earlier in the past: Provide a basis where contributor=
s can do<br>&gt; their work, where companies and corporations can share the=
ir interest,<br>
&gt; but know that none of them will have the force to define any rules or<=
br>&gt; modify the foundations mission.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Based on this ideas=
, TDF raised 50.000 Euro (mainly by small donations -<br>&gt; probably user=
s and small companies) in only 8 days.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Imagine large corporations start to support the community, bec=
ause they<br>&gt; don&#39;t have to fear the influence of any single main s=
ponsor - provide<br>&gt; money, code contributors, helping out the communit=
y with other issues...<br>
&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Figure more than 10M USD/annum. =A0That&#39;s to develop t=
he code, test it,<br>&gt;&gt; distribute it, and move ahead into areas that=
 go beyond the limits of<br>&gt;&gt; legacy.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; It&#39;s a cha=
llenge - but based on the efforts the community already did by<br>
&gt; creating TDF it is much more likely to be achieved than if the few<br>=
&gt; people staying here try to raise such an amount on their own.<br>&gt;&=
gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Unfortunately, for something like OOo, a &quot;community ef=
fort,&quot; still<br>
&gt;&gt; needs huge buckets of money. It&#39;s not about corporations, per =
se.<br>&gt;&gt; It&#39;s about needing to get dedicated developers, one way=
 or another,<br>&gt;&gt; working on the code, so that it can be reliably pr=
oduced, and<br>
&gt;&gt; satisfy the most demanding expectations.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Right - t=
hat&#39;s what is done with LibreOffice.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Meanwhile,=
 I continue to drive ODF interest, and continue to<br>&gt;&gt; represent OO=
o at ODF events; and continue to represent, as much as I<br>
&gt;&gt; can, as energetically as I can, to the world.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; You =
drive what?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; You still try to make the world believe that Li=
breOffice is nothing but<br>&gt; Novell&#39;s contribution to Microsoft&#39=
;s universe because there is a very<br>
&gt; small area of code development based on a contract among them.<br>&gt;=
<br>&gt; You don&#39;t do ODF and the entire FOSS ecosystem a favor if you =
declare,<br>&gt; that there would be no reliable alternative to MS Office a=
nymore for<br>
&gt; people fearing that the lack of activity in the OOo project might caus=
e<br>&gt; their adoption to fail.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I have no animus towa=
rd LibreOffice, though I do have my share of<br>&gt;&gt; doubts;<br>&gt;<br>
&gt; What you tell us here and in your blog, is much more than animus -<br>=
&gt; please see below.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; but my spirit is stamped with OO=
o, its community, its goal, of<br>&gt;&gt; providing reliable and reliably,=
 the best productivity tools there<br>
&gt;&gt; are to the most people.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; My goals have not changed =
during the last years, and I&#39;m not alone -<br>&gt; there is a large num=
ber of community members having spent hundreds or<br>&gt; thousands of hour=
s in their spare time for this community and its goals.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; But we don&#39;t insist on the name - it&#39;s the community&#=
39;s spirit that lives on.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Create and maintain the best ope=
n source office productivity suite.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Be part of the communit=
y that stands behind this suite and have<br>
&gt; influence by real merit: Every community member contributing for more<=
br>&gt; than just a short period is able to elect the Board of Directors an=
d be<br>&gt; elected to it.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; -louis<br>&gt;&=
gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; [...]<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&=
gt; On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">lsuarezpotts@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [...]<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It is not ev=
en the case that other projects using OOo technology<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ha=
ve that much greater insight. They do not.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; This clearly add=
resses LibreOffice and TDF.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; They may have more activity, but absent the energy=
 of<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; production, there is no production of energy.<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt; And you tell the world that there would not be productive work o=
ver there?<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Together with the accusations against the Novell employees, ig=
norance of<br>&gt; the large number of other developers, and repeatedly men=
tioning your<br>&gt; &quot;doubts&quot; about LibreOffice you create an ima=
ge that doesn&#39;t describes<br>
&gt; you as possible contact for reconciliation and re-unification of our<b=
r>&gt; large community.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; If Oracle wants to drop support for=
 the infrastructure and code<br>&gt; development (and I can&#39;t understan=
d the cessation of the release cycle<br>
&gt; and the mailing list migration differently), this will be the only way=
<br>&gt; to survive as the open source alternative to MS Office:<br>&gt;<br=
>&gt; Coordinate and integrate the community&#39;s work in both parts of th=
e<br>
&gt; community back to the open and integrative community I love to work fo=
r<br>&gt; during the last 6 years.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; But you are not the pers=
on I want to be represented by.<br>&gt; I want to work together with the en=
tire community in order to overcome<br>
&gt; this very dangerous situation not only for OpenOffice.org, but for the=
<br>&gt; broader FOSS community and their acceptance in public too.<br>&gt;=
<br>&gt; Your comments, blogs and interviews don&#39;t show any integrative=
 ideas,<br>
&gt; but try to damage LibreOffice and TDF on different levels instead of<b=
r>&gt; using the unique chance to re-unite our community leading to the hig=
hest<br>&gt; strength and best position for our office suite in the current=
 tangled<br>
&gt; situation.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Best regards<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Bernhard<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt; PS: You probably know that I neither have any formal role in the=
 OOo community nor in TDF. This mail is just my personal opinion as communi=
ty member trying to further our office suite in any way I can.<br>
&gt; --<br>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------=
------<br>&gt; To unsubscribe send email to <a href=3D"mailto:dev-unsubscri=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
enoffice.org</a><br>
&gt; For additional commands send email to <a href=3D"mailto:sympa@marketin=
g.openoffice.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>&=
gt; with Subject: help<br><br>--<br>---------------------------------------=
--------------------------<br>
To unsubscribe send email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
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><br>For additional commands send email to <a href=3D"mailto:sympa@marketin=
g.openoffice.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
with Subject: help<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all">=
<br></div></div>-- <br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><b>Alexandro Colorado</b><br><b><span style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,153)">Op=
en</span><span style=3D"COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">Office.org</span></b> Espa=F1ol<=
br><a href=3D"http://es.openoffice.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://es.openof=
fice.org</a><br>
<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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