Re: [native-lang] IRC Talk starts now!!

Andre Schnabel wrote:
> Hi Charles, Sophie, *
> 
> ....
> 
>> Last point, Ian: when all is said and done, there will be people who
>> contribute to OpenOffice.org and give the best to it, and people who are
>> making noise and spread FUD.
> 
> 
> The problem is to decide, who belongs to what group. this decision ist 
> not very easy, as most of us know only from email, what others are 
> doing. And even if we know more than just Mails, whe don't know the 
> other's live.

You belong to a group when you follow the rules previously established 
by this group. If you don't agree with this rules you try to make them 
changed, or you go away, but don't claim that you're in the group and 
follow your own rules elsewhere.
Rules here are PDL for documentation, JCA/LGPL for the code, CC (with no 
restriction) for non editable documents like graphics on /marketing/art/ 
projects for example.
See our licencing scheme and one of the last meeting of the coucil for 
the CC licence acceptance.
Just for a reminder, the PDL has been written by community members 
(mostly Gianluca Turconi and Martijn Dekkers) and validate by Sun as our 
documentation licence.
> 
> So ... please calm down a little.

I'm calm :) I'm only taking care of what is done and said for the sake 
of the OOo community. And when I see that, whatever I've said in private 
mail, is not followed, I react, may be sometime 'over' because I'm tired .
> 
> I know, it is not easy to make you (Charles and Sophie) that angry, so 
> there must be reasons ... but there are also reasons, why people feel 
> more comfortable with working at the OOoAuthors-site the working within 
> the documentation project.

So let speak about them, we are now able to have tools and space 
dedicated to our community. I still think that working with IZ or 
Doc&Files when you handle them correctly are great tools, but it's only 
my opinion (well not only mine as our translating group were happy with 
them during the basic OLH translation marathon)
> 
> I can tell something, why I have left the documentation project .. and 
> would rather work on OOoAuthors, if I'd start with OOo documentation 
> again. But this would be no good idea, if OOoAuthors is really a 
> community fork.
> To me, this is the main problem .. that some people consider OOoAuthors 
> a fork. But I don't know the reasons for that opinion (well .. I know 
> know at least one reason for me, to see it as such).

The reason is simple for me. If I write documentation that can't be put 
on the community site, I'm working for OOo the product, but not for OOo 
the community. It's a choice and that doesn't minus the work done.
The fork is when you settled first your project using the PDL (see april 
2004 mails in doc projects) then change it to CC and when you try to 
keep the 'in place' community or the new members wishing to participate 
out and drive them systematically to your project (whatever the topic of 
the participation and this almost every day).

> 
> So .. maybe we should focus on resolving thoses issuen?

oh yes :)
> 
> And .. no .. don't tell this all could have been done within the 
> (global) documentation project. 

see one of those issues to get my opinion ;)
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9919

I have several examples where people
> asked at dev@documentation how to help and never got an answer. (So .. 
> if we are speaking of a fork, search for the reasons within the project, 
> why this fork was so easy to establish).

I won't tell you that because I'm aware also for a long time of the 
issues meeting by the documentation project. Scott and Ger should be in 
that discussion BTW.
Imho, the Documentation project should have been a cross road for all 
documentations in the OOo project.
Are you aware of that for example :
http://sw.openoffice.org/drafts/linguistic_howto.html
http://graphics.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentView?documentID=1879&noNav=true
Each project has his own documentation not easy to find when you're new 
to the site, user or developper.

Imho the issue is not tools but will. I admit that if I've worked a lot 
for the english documentation at the begining, the lack of manpower in 
english language make me left the translations and focus on the fr 
documentation (well it's also that I prefer original writing than 
translations for our documentation).
The same will happen with scripting if we don't take care to keep it 
inside the project. Why is it important to have it in OOo community ? 
because it brings value to the community, it brings people to 
participate and it's much more easier for the NLC to have all in one 
place, and at the end, it brings credibility to our project.
> 
> André
> 
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