Re: [cowiki-dev] Short message

Paul Hanchett <[email protected]> Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:42:09 -0700
Newsgroups gmane.comp.php.cowiki.devel
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Thanks for the update, Archie.  :-)  I'm really glad you and dtg are 
getting on as I'm sort of sensitive to that sort of interaction and I 
don't like seeing it happen to others... 

I agree that the defect list needs to be pared down but I'm concened 
that the project does not have proper /direction/.  The defect list is a 
way of prioritizing things.  Some of the defects are assigned to this 
release, others are not.  Defects not assigned to this release should 
just be left alone unless there are no more defects assigned to the 
release.  A lot of the defects were entered by Sy at the beginning of 
this release cycle and whether I agree with them or not I don't want to 
loose them just because they aren't important to me _right now_-- They 
may be important to me later!

If everyone just takes on the issues they want to deal with, progress 
for the product will be at best a Drunkard's Walk.  At the beginning of 
Fullerene I set out some goals (http://www.cowiki.org/191.html) and only 
some of them have been tackled.  Uploadiong documents/images for 
inclusion on the wiki page is my personal hot button.  coWiki is at best 
a third rate product for collaborative work until this is dealt with.  I 
don't really want to hear much about why we can't do what we need to do, 
I'd rather hear options about how to implement what is needed elegantly.

When I took on this project, I agreed to do primarily the /management/ 
functions-- Not because I have some delusion of grandeur but rather 
because coWiki needs a strategic guide (every product does).  If I spend 
my time coding (as Daniel wants me to do) then I will loose the 
perspective necessary for the success of the product.  I have never seen 
anyone successfully both manage a project and be a major coder on the 
same project.  coWiki needs the management and development discipline 
more than it needs another coder.  (And we do need the coders, make no 
mistake!)

Of course, if everyone just goes ahead and does what they want to anyway 
then there's no point in doing any "management".  And that's about where 
we've been.

I have appreciated your taking on the parser, Archie.  And I also 
appreciate Daniel's taking on the installer-- I had planned on at least 
starting that as an investigatory project. The installer is much 
prettier than anything I would have done!

But we are seriously lacking any documentation of the changes to 
coWiki.  Who is supposed to take care of that?  I don't have enough to 
give to a writer to generate documentation.  There mere fact that it is 
not done */on coWiki/* is proof to me that coWiki is not ready for prime 
time.

If someone thinks otherwise, prove it to me by using coWiki to document 
itself.

Paul

PS-- I'm healthy but I'm suffering through a root canal yesterday and 
spending long days seeking full employment.  So my attention is not 
fully on coWiki these days, either.  For that I apologize.  :-(

PFH

Archie Campbell wrote:

> Hey Paul, hope you're healthy and so forth.
>
> There really are quite a bundle of issues to get through.
>
> I think dtg has the same game as I do, of an empty evening, of reading 
> the issues and suggesting removals or alterations. I'll suggest a few 
> all at once and then go off and work on things (the same or otherwise).
>
> Also, dtg has been quite helpful and very courteous in dealings with 
> me over the parser. I think we get on ok.
>
> I'd like to take the opportunity of here prompting other cowiki 
> members to check over the list of issues and ask for clarifications, 
> discussions and suchlike concerning the items on the list. They may 
> well be able to suggest changes that are more in keeping with current 
> stuff and thinking.
>
> I'm convinced that much more issue traffic, relating to and generated 
> by the issue list, is healthy and necessary to the success of the project.
>
> There remain an ongoing glut of parser issues, and therefore I'm quite 
> happy with my lot.
>
> I'd love to talk about media files, wiki templates and processing 
> arrangements, as I have some fairly (under)developed thoughts, but I'm 
> happy just waiting for John H at the moment, and there's all that 
> parser stuff.
>
> Really I wrote this note to quell fears that dtg may be in any way 
> poking me along as the parser guy.
>
> He is and does, and I don't mind.
>
> Regards,
>
> Archie
>
>

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Thanks for the update, Archie.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; I'm really glad you and dtg are
getting on as I'm sort of sensitive to that sort of interaction and I
don't like seeing it happen to others...&nbsp; <br>
<br>
I agree that the defect list needs to be pared down but I'm concened
that the project does not have proper <i>direction</i>.&nbsp; The defect
list is a way of prioritizing things.&nbsp; Some of the defects are assigned
to this release, others are not.&nbsp; Defects not assigned to this release
should just be left alone unless there are no more defects assigned to
the release.&nbsp; A lot of the defects were entered by Sy at the beginning
of this release cycle and whether I agree with them or not I don't want
to loose them just because they aren't important to me <u>right now</u>--
They may be important to me later!<br>
<br>
If everyone just takes on the issues they want to deal with, progress
for the product will be at best a Drunkard's Walk.&nbsp; At the beginning of
Fullerene I set out some goals (<a href="http://www.cowiki.org/191.html">http://www.cowiki.org/191.html</a>)
and only some of them have been tackled.&nbsp; Uploadiong documents/images
for inclusion on the wiki page is my personal hot button.&nbsp; coWiki is at
best a third rate product for collaborative work until this is dealt
with.&nbsp; I don't really want to hear much about why we can't do what we
need to do, I'd rather hear options about how to implement what is
needed elegantly.<br>
<br>
When I took on this project, I agreed to do primarily the <i>management</i>
functions-- Not because I have some delusion of grandeur but rather
because coWiki needs a strategic guide (every product does).&nbsp; If I
spend my time coding (as Daniel wants me to do) then I will loose the
perspective necessary for the success of the product.&nbsp; I have never
seen anyone successfully both manage a project and be a major coder on
the same project.&nbsp; coWiki needs the management and development
discipline more than it needs another coder.&nbsp; (And we do need the
coders, make no mistake!)<br>
<br>
Of course, if everyone just goes ahead and does what they want to
anyway then there's no point in doing any "management".&nbsp; And that's
about where we've been.<br>
<br>
I have appreciated your taking on the parser, Archie.&nbsp; And I also
appreciate Daniel's taking on the installer-- I had planned on at least
starting that as an investigatory project. The installer is much
prettier than anything I would have done!<br>
<br>
But we are seriously lacking any documentation of the changes to
coWiki.&nbsp; Who is supposed to take care of that?&nbsp; I don't have enough to
give to a writer to generate documentation.&nbsp; There mere fact that it is
not done <b><i>on coWiki</i></b> is proof to me that coWiki is not
ready for prime time.<br>
<br>
If someone thinks otherwise, prove it to me by using coWiki to document
itself.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
PS-- I'm healthy but I'm suffering through a root canal yesterday and
spending long days seeking full employment.&nbsp; So my attention is not
fully on coWiki these days, either.&nbsp; For that I apologize.&nbsp; :-(<br>
<br>
PFH<br>
<br>
Archie Campbell wrote:
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">
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Hey Paul, hope you're healthy and so forth.<br>
  <br>
There really are quite a bundle of issues to get through.<br>
  <br>
I think dtg has the same game as I do, of an empty evening, of reading
the issues and suggesting removals or alterations. I'll suggest a few
all at once and then go off and work on things (the same or otherwise).<br>
  <br>
Also, dtg has been quite helpful and very courteous in dealings with me
over the parser. I think we get on ok.<br>
  <br>
I'd like to take the opportunity of here prompting other cowiki members
to check over the list of issues and ask for clarifications,
discussions and suchlike concerning the items on the list. They may
well be able to suggest changes that are more in keeping with current
stuff and thinking.<br>
  <br>
I'm convinced that much more issue traffic, relating to and generated
by the issue list, is healthy and necessary to the success of the
project.<br>
  <br>
There remain an ongoing glut of parser issues, and therefore I'm quite
happy with my lot.<br>
  <br>
I'd love to talk about media files, wiki templates and processing
arrangements, as I have some fairly (under)developed thoughts, but I'm
happy just waiting for John H at the moment, and there's all that
parser stuff.<br>
  <br>
Really I wrote this note to quell fears that dtg may be in any way
poking me along as the parser guy.<br>
  <br>
He is and does, and I don't mind.<br>
  <br>
Regards,<br>
  <br>
Archie<br>
  <br>
  <br>
</blockquote>
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