Re: Notes Status, 24899 total

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 20:10, Ben Ramsey <[email protected]> wrote:

> > On Aug 15, 2020, at 13:43, Rowan Tommins <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 15/08/2020 19:02, Ben Ramsey wrote:
> >> Perhaps the time of user notes in the PHP manual has come and gone, and
> >> maybe it would be best to direct folks with questions to the `[php]`
> >> tag on Stack Overflow. Better yet (maybe), each manual page/section
> >> could specify a unique tag for that part of the manual, which would
> >> make it easier to link users to the answers they’re looking for.
> >
> >
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > I would be very cautious about pushing Stack Overflow as a replacement
> for all user notes, rather than a supplement to them (or to something
> else). It's very easy to lead users into posting questions which are not
> welcome on Stack Overflow, leading to a lose-lose situation - the user is
> frustrated, Stack Overflow users have more moderation to do, and the blame
> falls on php.net. This is common enough that there is an official help
> page about it: https://stackoverflow.com/help/product-support
> >
> >
> > I think there are two closely linked problems with user notes right now:
> >
> > * It's not very clear what their purpose is. There is a long list of
> things _not_ to do when you enter one, but no summary of what they _should_
> be for.
>

Their purpose is to provide supplemental information that ultimately gets
folded back into the manual pages proper.  We have been consistently
failing to do that to any recognisable degree for a very, very long time.


> > * There is no active moderation. The rules on the submission page aren't
> enforced, suggestions aren't incorporated into the manual, and out-dated
> and massively downvoted comments are never deleted. I've actually no idea
> who has the ability to moderate them, or how that process is supposed to
> work.
>

Anyone with a php.net account can moderate them.  If you're logged into the
site, each user note will have moderation tools attached to them.
Alternatively, there's the rather clunky interface on master.php.net.


> >
> >
> > Rather than getting rid of notes, I think we should look at how to
> improve that process. For instance, as we move towards git for the manual
> itself, we could have a system where a PR could list the notes that it
> makes redundant, and automatically delete them once approved. Then we could
> embrace edit suggestions as comments (rather than directing people to the
> bug tracker), and encourage people to raise a PR incorporating those
> suggestions.
>

Ideally, editing the manual would be as easy (or easier!) than it is to add
a user note right now.  That's a grand goal but not completely unachievable.


>
>
> I think you’re right. User notes aren’t intended as a place to ask
> questions and get answers. They are intended to supplement the examples
> in the manual, and many of them are valuable for this reason. Perhaps
> when we make it easier to contribute to the manual (through Git, etc.),
> more users will be able to provide updates to the manual instead of
> adding user notes.
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
>